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[00:20] <gades> hello
[00:20] <firebird619> hello
[00:21] <gades> i can't run KDE 4.2.1
[00:21] <BP{k}> why not?
[00:22] <gades> because can't found in xwmconfig
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[00:22] <straterra> eh?
[00:22] Action: BP{k} loves things like this ....
[00:22] <BP{k}> it's like I am a dentist .. I get to pull them one by one .. just to hear people scream.
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[00:23] <agentc0re> LOL
[00:23] <agentc0re> hahaha
[00:23] <BP{k}> \o/
[00:23] <BP{k}> admittedly if I *was* a dentist, i would probably see much the same happening. People running the fuck away from my practice ;)
[00:24] Action: Old_Fogie knows I would
[00:24] <agentc0re> This is the best geek rap battle ever..  http://bash.org/?870063
[00:24] <BP{k}> Old_Fogie: :D
[00:24] <Old_Fogie> hahaha
[00:24] <agentc0re> Old_Fogie: You sadist! :P
[00:25] <Old_Fogie> agentc0re, only if the price is right :)
[00:25] <agentc0re> I just sang the whole thing to my wife.  it was great!
[00:25] <nullboy> a lono dude
[00:25] <nullboy> dsffg
[00:25] <nullboy> this is the best geek rap ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4
[00:26] <agentc0re> LOL.
[00:27] <agentc0re> Both are great.
[00:27] <agentc0re> KILL -9!!
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[00:28] Action: Old_Fogie is building 2.26 for --current ...so far so good 3.5 hours in :)
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[00:28] <straterra> you need a compiling farm
[00:28] <Old_Fogie> got one, but added together, probably don't equal some mobile phones :)
[00:29] <straterra> o.O
[00:29] <twolf> hehe
[00:29] <Old_Fogie> actually gnome is a light build comparitively
[00:29] <Old_Fogie> to some other desktop enviro's
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[00:30] <Old_Fogie> going better now I fixed my symlinks for ccache, heh, they didn't like my 12.2 linkages
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[01:03] <Urchlay> heh
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[01:04] <Urchlay> nullboy, that's got to be the only rap video I've ever seen where someone in the band actually has a music stand
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[01:05] <Urchlay> ...and I've been to see MC Frontalot, even :)
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[01:09] <Ficthe> hi guys -- small, tricky question: how possibly could I print a sample of some C code in vim *as* it appears (i.e., with all the color coding, indentation, etc.) - the tricky part is that I want the colors to be taken in acount as they have been defined in .Xdefaults
[01:09] <Ficthe> and, in vim, :TOhtml does output a proper ready-to-be-printed copy, but not with colors as they have been defined in .Xdefaults. So, any clues? :x
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[01:11] <twolf> Ficthe: kate will print the colors if you want her to
[01:12] <Ficthe> twolf, I would prefer to print a copy of the file with syntax-coloring as it appears for me on term (with taking into account the color definitions from .xdefaults)
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[01:16] <druggz> hi
[01:16] Action: druggz doesent like slackware.
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[01:17] <godling> yo
[01:18] <Soul_keeper> http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1237263734647.jpg
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[01:19] <godling> ugh
[01:19] <Urchlay> Ficthe: probably the closest you can get to that, would be to find the script that's responsible for the :TOhtml command, and edit the colors in there
[01:19] <godling> 4chan? Really?
[01:20] <nullboy> lol
[01:20] <nullboy> 4chan is brutal
[01:20] <Urchlay> Ficthe: I had to do that myself a while back, to get the bgcolor to be black
[01:21] <Motoko-chan> Nice description, I guess.
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[01:23] <Ficthe> Urchlay, I'll have to settle to just an output of :TOhtml by choosing a vim c-color scheme, instead of relying on .xdefaults color - thanks though. :)
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[01:26] Action: edman007 slaps Soul_keeper 
[01:27] <edman007> i like my mac
[01:27] <edman007> in fact i'm kinda porting a game to it as we speak
[01:27] <Motoko-chan> "kinda"
[01:27] <Motoko-chan> Silly edman007, there are no games on Mac.
[01:27] <godling> nullboy: oh hey, I didn't see you there
[01:28] <edman007> Motoko-chan, well its been ported before, just nobody ever seems to submit their patchs upstream...last time i ported this game i lost my modified code :(
[01:28] <edman007> and interestingly that was last spring break, lol
[01:28] <edman007> but this time i'm making it universal
[01:29] <edman007> i'm building a PPC version to go with it
[01:29] <Soul_keeper> good work
[01:30] <Motoko-chan> Will it run on Debian on my G4 tower?
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[01:31] <edman007> Motoko-chan, the build scripts have some stuff in there for for debian ppc, i don't have a clue when it was tried last though
[01:31] <edman007> this is TASpring BTW
[01:32] <Motoko-chan> Looks interesting
[01:32] <kunal> any idea which is the best CD to use to erase a hdd?
[01:32] <Motoko-chan> I like DBAN
[01:32] <kunal> DBAN?
[01:33] <edman007> yup
[01:33] <edman007> though if you want some fun, just boot the computer and shred its own disk, watch it panic
[01:33] <edman007> that is always fun
[01:33] <Motoko-chan> Or run Linux inside Linux.
[01:33] <kunal> haha. i think i'll just try DBAN.i need to erase my HDD as my grub is mad
[01:33] <Motoko-chan> That confuses things a lot.
[01:34] <kunal> yes. boot and nuke :)
[01:34] Action: Motoko-chan once booted Mandriva inside Mandriva (using physicial partition).
[01:34] <kunal> i dont wanna even fix the grub. its debian :(
[01:34] <Motoko-chan> It got very confused.
[01:34] <nix_chix0r> any one take unisom sleep aid
[01:34] <kunal> whats unisom?
[01:34] <godling> nix_chix0r: Surely.
[01:34] <kunal> anyone here use finch?
[01:34] <twolf> I think that stuff is basically benedryl
[01:34] <nix_chix0r> i just said it's a sleep aid nubcake
[01:35] <nix_chix0r> well i was taking tylenol pm's to get to sleep but i got some unisom to see how effective it is
[01:35] <godling> nix_chix0r: I usually rely on Crown Royal. ;P
[01:36] <twolf> get your doctor to give you ambien
[01:36] <Motoko-chan> Die the same way Heath did!
[01:36] <godling> Motoko-chan: shut up :P
[01:36] <nix_chix0r> godling, when i spawn the kid maybe i can chug some crown royal. i wonder if the doc would give me ambien
[01:36] <nix_chix0r> would be nice
[01:37] <godling> nix_chix0r: that's what I thought, you're pregnant.
[01:37] <kunal> haha . heath :)
[01:37] <nix_chix0r> yeah
[01:37] <godling> nix_chix0r: Are sleeping pills even OK?
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[01:38] <nix_chix0r> yeah, these are just 25mg  i made sure it's alright
[01:38] <Motoko-chan> I don't think Ambien is a good idea for pregnancy.
[01:38] <Motoko-chan> However, I'm not a doctor.
[01:38] <godling> You know, I don't mean to sound callous but I'm sure a little FAS never hurt anyone.
[01:38] <nix_chix0r> some women still take their anti depressants
[01:39] <kunal> godling!!!
[01:39] <kunal> FAS?
[01:39] <kunal> fetal alc syndrome?
[01:39] <godling> Maybe that's why so many of my friends' children are so daft. :P
[01:39] <godling> (anti-depressants)
[01:39] <kunal> possible.
[01:39] <Motoko-chan> Yes, taking random drugs while pregnant is awesome!
[01:39] <kunal> but try to stay off during pregnancy.
[01:40] <godling> multiple arms are useful, Motoko-chan
[01:40] <Motoko-chan> I guess nobody here read The Girl with the Silver Eyes by Willo Davis Roberts
[01:40] <Motoko-chan> http://www.amazon.com/Girl-Silver-Eyes-Apple-Paperbacks/dp/0590442481
[01:40] <kunal> no
[01:40] <kunal> not me.
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[01:40] <kunal> its a good reah eh?
[01:40] <Motoko-chan> godling, which is why we have two
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[01:40] <godling> Motoko-chan: but three would be awesome
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[01:41] <godling> nix_chix0r: does warm milk do anything for you?
[01:41] <DeiBellum> godling, but where whould the third arm be placed?
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[01:43] <godling> nix_chix0r: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophan#Turkey_meat_and_drowsiness
[01:43] <nix_chix0r> i'm set i popped that tablet
[01:43] <godling> nix_chix0r: Wikipedia says you need to imbibe meat, carbohydrates, and booze.
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[01:44] <kunal> skip the booze
[01:44] <kunal> have meat and carb.
[01:44] <nix_chix0r> i normally don't have a sleep problem godling , i'm just trying to pass out during these contractions:P
[01:44] <godling> It's never too early to start disciplining the child.
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[01:44] <nix_chix0r> ha
[01:45] <godling> Spare the rod...
[01:45] <nix_chix0r> beat the child
[01:46] <godling> I'm sure that went differently. Oh well.
[01:46] <DeiBellum> nothing like a good womb beating for when the thing kicks
[01:46] <nix_chix0r> lets just say he'll know who wears the pants
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[01:47] Action: godling drapes the Captain Obvious cape across DeiBellum's shoulders.
[01:47] Action: DeiBellum is now a superhero!
[01:47] <DeiBellum> =P
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[01:48] <godling> Yes, you should call your mother and tell her she was wrong about you.
[01:48] <godling> ;P
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[01:50] <edman007> nix_chix0r, stop getting all drugged up
[01:50] <nix_chix0r> aw shux
[01:51] <godling> I wonder what would happen if a woman took Sildenafil.
[01:51] <nix_chix0r> there was just a commercial for women who take paxil while pregnant and their babies have birth defects one of those class lawsuit type of things
[01:51] <godling> So did you start taking Paxil in the hopes you'll get rich?
[01:51] <nix_chix0r> if you or a loved one have suffered from death call this number...
[01:52] <nix_chix0r> nah i dont want a deformed baby
[01:52] <Old_Fogie> 8675309?
[01:52] <nix_chix0r> Old_Fogie, a guy named bob geldof answers that number now days
[01:52] <Urchlay> really?
[01:53] <nix_chix0r> around here yeah
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[01:53] <edman007> haha, you called?
[01:53] <Urchlay> all I know about him is he's in the movie "The Wall", and I think he used to sing in a punk band or somthing
[01:53] <druggz> all these sirens and whistles just poked out of the sides of my PC with an error:  FAILING FAILING THE LINUX SHIT IS FAILING!
[01:54] <nix_chix0r> all my junk mail and credit card offers come in that name on purpose
[01:54] <nix_chix0r> or i have them ship to bob saget/geldof inc
[01:54] <Old_Fogie> bob saget, hahah
[01:54] <Urchlay> for a while I used to get junk mail address to "Brian W. Kernighan"
[01:55] <godling> his dog licked his balls
[01:55] <nix_chix0r> ha
[01:55] Action: Old_Fogie starts filling out junk mail replies with nix_chix0r's address :)
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[01:55] <Old_Fogie> here,...take the viagara ads :)
[01:55] <Urchlay> was one of those deals where the radio station put on a "free" concert
[01:55] <godling> I get junk mail addressed to Current Resident.
[01:55] <nix_chix0r> shoot send me some free viagra
[01:55] <Urchlay> but you had to sign up for their little concert-card thingy
[01:56] <Old_Fogie> godling, hahah, same here
[01:56] <nix_chix0r> i'll have the bf try it once
[01:56] <Old_Fogie> acutally, it's "Or Current Resident"
[01:56] <godling> nix_chix0r: apparently he doesn't need it :P
[01:56] <nix_chix0r> godling, but it could be interesting to use once:)
[01:57] <Urchlay> every once in a while I get the urge to save a few weeks' worth of junkmail, then take to the post office and demand to speak to the boss, and tell him "Occupant and Resident both moved out, stop delivering this crap"
[01:57] <godling> eh, live and let live
[01:57] <Urchlay> unfortunately that would accomplish nothing... still nice to daydream about
[01:57] <godling> This woman had eight babies, she's all over the media.
[01:58] <Soul_keeper> she's a millionaire now
[01:58] <Urchlay> she needs to be a millionaire
[01:58] <Soul_keeper> bought a 500K house just from the money she got saling pics of the kids
[01:58] <Old_Fogie> yah, nix_chix0r is letting us down godling , she's only having one.  what a wimp :)
[01:58] <Urchlay> raising kids is expensive...
[01:58] <nix_chix0r> i am a toal wimp compared to that crazy woman
[01:58] <Urchlay> wait, 8 babies? did she drop a litter like a cat, or were they spaced out over a few years?
[01:58] <Old_Fogie> she aint wrapped to tight, that's for sure
[01:59] <nix_chix0r> i think ones gona be enough for me folks
[01:59] <Soul_keeper> if you can get a artificial insemination for 9 kids to one up her ...   i'm sure it would return on the captial invested
[01:59] <Soul_keeper> :)
[01:59] <godling> "The babies weighed between 1lb 8oz and 3lb 4oz and were initially identified by the letters A to G"
[01:59] <Old_Fogie> yeah, 9 kids nix_chix0r ! name them all George, like George Forman named his kids. :)
[02:00] <Urchlay> if I were the dad I'd probly have named them Alpha, Beta, Gamma, etc etc
[02:00] <nix_chix0r> hahah, at least my woman parts wont be like a penny in a well
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[02:00] <Urchlay> Old_Fogie: what does he do, call them by their mamas' names?
[02:01] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, nope, they're all named George.  nojoke
[02:01] <Urchlay> so what, they're going to become a hive mind, due to lack of individual identity?
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[02:01] <Urchlay> foreman read Hellstrom's Hive or something?
[02:02] <twolf> become the heavy weight champion of the world and call your kids what every you please
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[02:03] <Urchlay> yeah but those kids are going to grow up one day
[02:03] <twolf> do it twice an sell all the electric grills you please
[02:03] <godling> There are too many people having kids.
[02:03] <Urchlay> and they'll outnumber him
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[02:04] <Urchlay> actually, wait, how did he manage to have 9 boys and no girls? or are some of them girls named George?
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[02:04] <twolf> some girls
[02:04] <Old_Fogie> I think "georgine" for the girls iirc
[02:04] <godling> I've seen girls named Michael.
[02:04] <Urchlay> used to know a "Georgette"
[02:05] <Urchlay> "Georgia" wouldn't be a bad female name either, unless you hate the state of Georgia...
[02:05] <godling> or Southerners
[02:05] <nullboy> i'm in southern california why you hating
[02:06] <godling> Or you could name the runt Georgia and just incite the other children to beat the crap out of her
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[02:06] <godling> nullboy: me too
[02:06] <nullboy> \o/
[02:06] <godling> nullboy: It's my hood and I can hate if I want to.
[02:06] <nullboy> yeah that's ok then
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[02:07] <godling> It shouldn't be. You fail the loyalty test. Get out of the IE.
[02:07] <godling> ;P
[02:07] <nullboy> psssh
[02:07] <nullboy> IE
[02:07] <nullboy> try ventura county
[02:08] <godling> rich boy
[02:08] <nullboy> yeah right
[02:10] <Urchlay> "the IE"?
[02:10] <Urchlay> the browser, or Ireland?
[02:10] <godling> Urchlay: Inland Empire
[02:11] <godling> You know, I'm not really a nationalist (or whatever they call someone who takes pride in their hometown).
[02:12] <lowkyalur> the word is "redneck"
[02:13] <Urchlay> not sure whether anyone really is, unless they're taught to be that way as a kiod
[02:13] <godling> lowkyalur: I don't think so.
[02:13] <Urchlay> s/io/i/
[02:13] <ccfreak2k> Are there redneck Asians?
[02:13] <godling> ccfreak2k: DUDE
[02:13] <godling> ccfreak2k: I just saw an Asian today with the craziest mullet.
[02:13] <Urchlay> well, sort-of, but they live in Georgia
[02:13] <lowkyalur> Georgia (US) or Georgia (russian tanks)?
[02:14] <Urchlay> US
[02:14] <godling> lowkyalur: What do you think?
[02:14] <Urchlay> not sure what you call a redneck from the other Georgia
[02:14] <godling> lowkyalur: In the context of our current discussion, which seems more probably? ;P
[02:14] <godling> Urchlay: Comrade
[02:14] <godling> s/probably/probable
[02:14] <Urchlay> I know a guy who moved from Georgia, USSR to Georgia USA
[02:15] <lowkyalur> godling: if it's about asian rednecks... from here it's much closer to asia and georgia (tanks)
[02:15] <Urchlay> he will tell people, in his thick Russian-sounding accent, "Da, I from Georgia originally!"
[02:15] <twolf> humidity sucks
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[02:16] <lowkyalur> btw, georgia (tanks) is in asia afaik.
[02:16] <Urchlay> people from there aren't really thought of as "Asians" though
[02:16] <godling> lowkyalur: it's between Europe and Asia.
[02:16] <Urchlay> (at least not the ones I've met. They're Slavic...)
[02:16] <godling> lowkyalur: in the Caucasus
[02:17] <godling> lowkyalur: that's where the white people live
[02:17] <godling> Well, the near-white people anyways
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[02:18] <lowkyalur> godling: there should be a definite answer, as the continents have defined borders:)
[02:18] <Urchlay> not sure whether Europe and Asia are actually separate continents (in the geological sense: are they 2 separate tectonic plates?)
[02:19] <nullboy> http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-03/who-protects-intrnet
[02:19] <lowkyalur> no, they are not.
[02:19] <Urchlay> I've head people speak of "Eurasia" before, but can't remember the context (maybe fictional)
[02:19] <godling> according to CIA Georgia is in Southwestern Asia.
[02:19] <Urchlay> er. Actually I do remember. "Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia"... Orwell's 1984
[02:20] <godling> according to wikipedia it is in the Caucasus
[02:20] <godling> both may be true
[02:20] <lowkyalur> now asia begins in the west at the ural, and at the bosporus (istanbul is a city on two continents)
[02:20] <lowkyalur> caucasus is mountains...
[02:22] <lowkyalur> as georgia is north of iran/turkey i would say...asia
[02:22] <godling> lowkyalur: it makes sense that all the white people live there, then
[02:22] <godling> lowkyalur: you know, rednecks
[02:22] <godling> "mountain folk"
[02:22] Action: godling strums a banjo
[02:22] <godling> we are so beyond OT
[02:23] <lowkyalur> im pretty sure they have some tradition to burn witches|foreigners|a straw puppet|marshmallows on easter|midsummer|some strange asian holiday
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[02:23] <godling> lowkyalur: I wouldn't doubt it.
[02:24] <godling> lowkyalur: Humans are curious and superstitious creatures.
[02:24] <Urchlay> ...so are politicians
[02:25] <godling> ugh, the lady who owns the house I'm renting a room from always lets her dishes pile up in both sides of the sink, then she ends up taking four hours in the evening to get rid of just half of them
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[02:25] <lowkyalur> last year i was on the '8th 1st slovakian bluegrass festival' :)
[02:25] <godling> I'm hungry and I can't really go out into the kitchen and make anything to eat.
[02:25] <lowkyalur> ...that was a strange combination of slavic rednecks:)
[02:25] <Urchlay> godling: 'cause you'll get hit with shards of flying crockery?
[02:26] <Urchlay> or just there's a large woman taking up the space you'd have to stand in?
[02:27] <Urchlay> lowkyalur: which was it, the 8th or the 1st? sounds entertaining anyway...
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[02:27] <godling> Well, I need to wash my dishes. I can't do it when the sink is full, so I usually go out there and move stuff around to do it.
[02:27] <lowkyalur> Urchlay: the 8th edition of the "1st slovak bluegrass festival"
[02:27] <godling> I can't very well push her out of the way to wash my own dishes, though.
[02:28] <godling> this is why I end up ordering fucking Domino's all the time. :P
[02:29] <Urchlay> hm, sorta how there can be 8 churches in one town, all called "1st"?
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[02:30] <lowkyalur> yep
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[02:30] <Urchlay> 1st methodist, 1st baptist, 1st angry barbarian...
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[02:33] <Urchlay> hm. Who writes letters? (Like paper ones, snail mail)
[02:33] <Urchlay> people in jail or rehab, who else?
[02:33] <Urchlay> (sorry, random thought)
[02:33] <tank-man> old people
[02:34] <godling> I'd imagine people write letters all the time, Urchlay.
[02:34] <godling> penpals
[02:35] <nullboy> i get letters
[02:35] <godling> I get letters from your mom.
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[02:36] <BP{k}> you too? damm she gets around.
[02:36] <Urchlay> well there's this girl I know who's disappeared for the last 3 or 4 months
[02:36] <BP{k}> Urchlay: soldiers? (those on frontline posistions)
[02:36] <Urchlay> the only contact anyone's had with her is a letter
[02:37] <Urchlay> BP{k}: yeah... damn, I hope that doesn't apply to her!
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[02:37] <Urchlay> I have no idea what's in the letter (it wasn't to me)
[02:38] <Urchlay> is there such a thing as a Protestant nun? It wouldn't surprise me if she'd become a nun, except she ain't Catholic
[02:39] <Camarade_Tux> well, the more somebody count for you, the more likely you are to send snail mail rather than email imho
[02:40] <BP{k}> Urchlay: I guess there are.
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[02:40] <Urchlay> eh, a year ago, she wouldn't have written anyone a letter, she would have used her cel phone or email
[02:40] <Old_Fogie> Protestant nuns? nope they dont exist.
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[02:41] <Urchlay> apparently there's such a thing as a Shaolin nun (I met a girl who claimed to be one, but I dunno if that means she knew mad martial arts...)
[02:42] <Urchlay> more likely she told me that to get rid of me :(
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[02:43] <BP{k}> A Nun is a woman who has taken special vows committing her to a religious life.She may be an ascetic who voluntarily chooses to leave mainstream society and live her life in prayer and contemplation in a monastery or convent. The term "nun" is applicable to Roman Catholics, Eastern Christians, Anglicans, Lutherans, Jains, Buddhists, and Taoists, for example.
[02:44] <dartmouth> hi, im installing the new version of skype and it says it's static, but i do 'ldd skype' and it shows pointers to libraries on my system, and a few of them are not there and are required for skype to run.
[02:44] <godling> BP{k}: So sayeth Wikipedia.
[02:44] <BP{k}> godling: indeed.
[02:44] <godling> You should attribute. :P
[02:44] <Urchlay> anyway it's either that, or she's in jail
[02:45] <dartmouth> libQtDBus.so.4, libQtGui.so.4, libQtNework.so.4, libQtCore.so.4
[02:45] <Urchlay> (most people don't go to jail for possession of small amounts of marijuana though, which is all she ever did that's illegal)
[02:45] <godling> Urchlay: human trafficking?
[02:45] <godling> Urchlay: That's the big thing down here, close to Mexico.
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[02:46] <Urchlay> what, she got taken as a slave? If I were kidnapping people & selling them, I wouldn't let them write letters to their friends...
[02:46] <godling> or maybe you make them tell their friends everything is ok
[02:46] <godling> so they won't call the police
[02:47] <Urchlay> yah, but the mere fact that it was a letter & not a phone call or email sets off alarm bells
[02:47] <Urchlay> she might have joined some kind of cult though
[02:47] <Camarade_Tux> dartmouth, well, installing qt4 is no big deal
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[02:48] <BP{k}> Urchlay: have you tried asking the person she  wrote the letter to?
[02:48] <Urchlay> can't really
[02:48] <nullboy> anyone use quagga on linux?
[02:48] <Urchlay> she's the wife of a guy who doesn't allow his wife to talk to other men
[02:48] <godling> nullboy: probabl
[02:48] <godling> *probably
[02:48] <Camarade_Tux> dartmouth, also, they're maybe distributing these libs too
[02:48] <godling> Urchlay: maybe he killed her
[02:49] <nullboy> godling: what do you use it for?
[02:49] <Urchlay> probably he knows what's in the letter, but won't say
[02:49] <BP{k}> Urchlay: oh that sounds healthy ;)
[02:49] <godling> Urchlay: have you seen him in any new hats lately?
[02:49] <godling> any hats that look strangely like her head?
[02:49] <godling> nullboy: I don't use it.
[02:49] <Urchlay> BP{k}: he's a bit of a psychopath actually... good drummer though (which is how come I even know the guy)
[02:50] <nullboy> godling: so then what were you talking to me for?
[02:50] <nullboy> looked like half a message
[02:50] <dartmouth> Camarade_Tux: i already have qt4 installed and these libs were not included
[02:50] <dartmouth> Camarade_Tux: they aren't distributing those libs
[02:51] <godling> nullboy: I was answering your query.
[02:51] <nullboy> godling: but it was a fragment of a word
[02:51] <nullboy> did you hit enter too early?
[02:52] <godling> nullboy: Yes, but then I corrected myself.
[02:52] <nullboy> ah ok
[02:52] <Camarade_Tux> dartmouth, issue : find /usr/lib -iname "*libqtgui*"
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[02:53] <godling> nullboy: You asked if anyoned used that program. Someone probably does. :P
[02:53] <godling> *anyone
[02:53] <godling> fuck my typing
[02:53] <dartmouth> Camarade_Tux: gotcha; found em; just a sec
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[02:54] <nullboy> ah so really you had nothing to say
[02:54] <nullboy> that's cool
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[02:54] <godling> nullboy: If I had nothing to say, I would have said it.
[02:55] <dartmouth> Camarade_Tux: http://pastebin.com/f2d1e21df
[02:56] <dartmouth> also, I am using the qt4 package from the slackbuilds tree
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[02:56] <Camarade_Tux> dartmouth, mine are at the same place fwiw
[02:57] <Camarade_Tux> but I can't tell you more, I have to go
[02:57] Action: godling pokes nullboy 
[02:57] <Camarade_Tux> (hi all and) bye all
[02:57] <dartmouth> :(
[02:57] <dartmouth> duuude i promised my gal i'd be on cam tomorrow
[02:57] <dartmouth> lol
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[02:59] <dartmouth> ok, so what's good practice to fix this?  symlinks?  ln -s /usr/lib/qt-4.4.3/lib/* /usr/lib?
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[03:01] <godling> dartmouth: That paste doesn't show libQtDBus.so.4
[03:02] <dartmouth> ....
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[03:03] <godling> dartmouth: that's the one skype is complaining about
[03:03] <godling> of course from the ldd output it's not finding others as well
[03:03] <dartmouth> the issue is that the skye static binary is looking for the qt libs in /usr/lib instead of /usr/lib/qt4.x.x/
[03:04] <dartmouth> i just am concerned if symlinking to /usr/lib is going to be bad juju
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[03:04] <slack_china> which's man use kernel 2.6.28.7 ??
[03:04] <tank-man> dartmouth, maybe modify /etc/ld.so.conf
[03:04] <tank-man> and add that path
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[03:04] <dartmouth> will that work with static links?
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[03:06] <tank-man> after it is added, then run ldconfig then try running skype
[03:06] <dartmouth> oh, this is weird.  the qt4 slackbuild added a symlink /usr/lib/qt4 -> /usr/lib/qt-4.4.3 and then added /usr/lib/qt4 to /etc/ld.so.conf
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[03:07] <slack_china> when i use 2.6.28.7-generic-smp and after mkinitrd .then .it say alg:des-asm ...and dont's found /bin/init
[03:07] <godling> so just try ldconfig?
[03:07] <dartmouth> i wonder if the slackbuild just didn't run ldconf
[03:07] <dartmouth> yeah
[03:07] <dartmouth> ah ha.
[03:08] <dartmouth> i'll tell someone in #slackbuilds
[03:08] <slack_china> oh my god!!
[03:08] <Urchlay> ldconfig normally gets run by installpkg
[03:08] <Urchlay> (even for packages that don't touch any of the lib/ directories)
[03:08] <dartmouth> weird.
[03:09] <dartmouth> i have no idea that happened.
[03:09] <dartmouth> *how
[03:09] <slack_china> who can tell me why?
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[03:11] <tank-man> i have no idea slack_china
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[03:14] <Urchlay> at a guess, some module you need is missing from your initrd (like the driver for SATA or IDE drives, or for reiserfs if you're using that)
[03:15] <slack_china> but done it mkinitrd -c -k 2.6.28.7-smp -m ext3 -f ext3 -r /dev/sda3
[03:15] <Urchlay> are you actually using 2.6.28.7-generic-smp or is that a typo and you're really using 2.6.27.7-generic-smp?
[03:16] <Urchlay> also. mkinitrd was broken in the original release of 12.2, IIRC. Might want to grab the latest version from patches/ (or use slackpkg)
[03:16] <slack_china> i installed 2.6.27.7-generic-smp and 2.6.28.7-generic-smp all same error
[03:17] <lowkyalur> b
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[03:17] <lowkyalur> wrong window
[03:17] <slack_china> i try extra/mkinitrd_12.2 same error
[03:17] <Urchlay> http://slackware.mirrors.tds.net/pub/slackware/slackware-12.2/patches/packages/
[03:18] <Urchlay> specifically http://slackware.mirrors.tds.net/pub/slackware/slackware-12.2/patches/packages/mkinitrd-1.3.3-i486-1_slack12.2.tgz
[03:18] <slack_china>  i already use it try..same error..
[03:18] <Urchlay> if that doesn't help you, I dunno...
[03:19] <Urchlay> you can pull the initrd apart, make sure it contains the correct modules
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[03:19] <slack_china> sure /lib/modules's 2.6.27-smp
[03:19] <slack_china> modules is correct
[03:20] <slack_china> it's /lib/modules/2.6.27.7-smp
[03:20] <Urchlay> in that case I don't know what to tell you. Maybe pastebin the actual error message (if you have a way to do that, which you probably don't)
[03:21] <slack_china> i have messages,,at boot time
[03:23] <slack_china> sorry,i have messages at home..
[03:23] <godling> slack_china: can't really help you without knowing what the errors are
[03:23] <slack_china> en..
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[03:29] <slack_china> you use 2.6.28.7 ??
[03:30] <slack_china> godling??
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[03:32] Action: frullet is finally home from tafe
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[03:33] <godling> slack_china: The extra question marks are not necessary. One is enough. :)
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[03:34] <slack_china> my god
[03:36] <slack_china> don't fond /bin/init
[03:36] <slack_china> and have don't mount /dev/sdas to /mnt
[03:38] <tank-man> I don't see a "/bin/init" on my slackware 12.2 system
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[03:39] <slack_china> i upgrade my kernel step by step
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[03:40] <slack_china> upgrade 2.6.28.7-smp  include kernel-firmware kernel-generic-smp kernel-headers kernel-modules-smp kernel-source
[03:41] <slack_china> and enter /boot then mkinitrd -c -k 2.6.28.7-smp -m ext3 -f ext3 -r /dev/sda3
[03:41] <slack_china> then reboot..
[03:41] <slack_china> system tell me error..my step wrong??
[03:43] <antler> slack_china: are you trying to upgrade your kernel?
[03:44] <slack_china> yes
[03:45] <antler> here's a good guide: http://alien.slackbook.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=linux:kernelbuilding   maybe compare what you did with the steps outlined in the guide
[03:48] <slack_china> thanks .when night i will try it.
[03:49] <slack_china> thanks again!!
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[04:21] <IntangibleLiquid> is it possible to disable rc.gtk-stuff and rc.M at boot up?
[04:22] <nullboy> don't disable rc.M
[04:23] <IntangibleLiquid> nullboy, thanks. rc.M appears to start quite a number of useful scripts
[04:23] <nullboy> rc.M is critical to sane operation
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[04:55] <edman007> nullboy, we are not all sane...
[04:56] <nullboy> if you start talking about using makefiles for rc scripts again i'll slap you with a trout
[04:56] Action: nullboy slaps edman007 with a large trout anyway
[04:56] <edman007> nullboy, nah...
[04:56] <edman007> i'm using scons
[04:57] <slackytude> morning
[04:57] <edman007> now you can have your startup in python!
[04:57] Action: edman007 ducks
[04:57] <edman007> slackytude, only 5am...
[04:57] <slackytude> dont diss the python
[04:57] <slackytude> 10:00 am for me
[04:57] <slackytude> kinda late actually
[04:58] <slackytude> y0 nullboy
[04:58] <nullboy> hey!
[04:58] <edman007> slackytude, late?
[04:58] <slackytude> edman007, a bit, yeah
[04:58] <edman007> 10am sounds like a normal bedtime...
[04:58] <edman007> not too late
[04:59] <kunal> hello. hey. can i give my system any hostname?
[04:59] <slackytude> nullboy, got a link for me?
[04:59] <nullboy> for what?
[04:59] <kunal> and do i need to really give a domain nane?
[04:59] <slackytude> nullboy, pam
[04:59] <nullboy> kunal: just use lan
[04:59] <edman007> kunal, just put a .localdomain at the end
[04:59] <kunal> ok.
[04:59] <slackytude> kunal, dont give itr a female name or it wont work for 4 days in a month
[04:59] Action: slackytude hides
[04:59] <nullboy> first here: http://home.pacbell.net/morticus/WARNING.txt
[04:59] <kunal> :) haha
[05:00] <nullboy> http://home.pacbell.net/morticus/PAM-12.2-SOURCE/
[05:00] <slackytude> nullboy, HERE BE DRAGONS
[05:00] <slackytude> nullboy, thx ^-^
[05:00] <nullboy> good luck!
[05:00] <kunal> hey. one thing tho. i need to configure my DHCP server.
[05:00] <slackytude> heh, thx
[05:00] <edman007> nullboy, posting nasty things i see
[05:00] <nullboy> edman007: they made me do it
[05:00] Action: slackytude nods
[05:00] <slackytude> I forced him
[05:01] <slackytude> and I promised him sexy women
[05:02] <edman007> slackytude, do i get sexy women?
[05:02] <slackytude> edman007, what for?
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[05:02] <edman007> me
[05:03] <slackytude> heh
[05:03] Action: slackytude checks his list
[05:03] <slackytude> there is no entry for hawt foxy ladies for edman007, sorry. try again next year
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[05:03] <edman007> noooo
[05:03] Action: edman007 slaps slackytude 
[05:04] <slackytude> :P
[05:05] <_RadioHead> morning people
[05:07] <kunal> morning _RadioHead
[05:07] <_RadioHead> hi kunal
[05:08] Action: edman007 waves
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[05:09] <kunal> yes. i am new to slackware :)
[05:09] <kunal> i just sucessfully installed slackware :)
[05:09] <kunal> without falling off my computer chair
[05:10] <edman007> clearly i didn't put enough grease on your chair than...
[05:10] <kunal> hahaha
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[05:12] <kunal> yea well too bad
[05:13] <kunal> sorry. a little busy trying to config my slackware internet connection
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[05:14] <kunal> and what makes things worse is my internet speed doesnt exceed 12kbps!!!!
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[05:15] <kunal> can someone here tell me how to start my ethernet connection?
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[05:15] <kunal> i just ran an ifconfig
[05:15] <rapid> kunal: those details should all be in slackbook
[05:15] <Urchlay> the dead easiest way would be to run "netconfig"
[05:16] <Urchlay> (do this while logged in as root)
[05:16] <kunal> rapid: its going to take me 10 mins to get it
[05:16] <rapid> I feel sorry for you. really
[05:16] <kunal> i am from india. what do you expect me to do.
[05:17] <kunal> i only get 2MBPS download speed after 9:00
[05:17] <rapid> I don't expect you to do anything
[05:17] <kunal> during the day i use a connection that doesnt exceed 12kbps
[05:17] <Aldaron> India \o/
[05:17] <frullet> *only* 2MBPS?
[05:17] <kunal> yes. at night.
[05:17] <kunal> thats when i sit and download slackware distros
[05:18] <kunal> plus my DVDrom failed on me so i had to download CD
[05:18] <kunal> sucks
[05:18] <kunal> what are your internet connections like?
[05:18] <kunal> in thailand i had 4mbps connection
[05:18] <kunal> really nice.
[05:18] <kunal> the whole day
[05:19] <impulse> 24Mbps .. anyway.. do what Urchlay said :)
[05:19] <kunal> ok. doing it. impulse! 24MBPS!!!
[05:19] <kunal> wow.
[05:20] <Aldaron> I think 4mbps is above average in the western world. Well, apart from geeks you'd meet on ##slackware, they have the fastest thing reasonable money can buy ;)
[05:20] <Aldaron> I've got 8, but that's only because they offered that for the price of 2
[05:20] <kunal> wow Aldron: quite a bargain
[05:20] <impulse> for the price of two what?
[05:21] <impulse> ohh nvm
[05:21] <kunal> i paid 20USD for 2MBPS connection from 9 at night till 9 in morning
[05:21] <kunal> i sometimes feel like borat in khazakistan
[05:22] <Aldaron> :D
[05:22] <Aldaron> 2 is already very good =)
[05:23] <impulse> if you had it for the entire day sure...
[05:23] <Aldaron> or if you are able to leave your computer on at night
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[05:25] <kunal> well yeah impulse. i wouldnt be complaining so much if I had 2MBPS for the entire day. the problem is that i have it only during the night and that usually when I sleep
[05:25] <impulse> so you can download all the pages you want to vitie for the day after? :p
[05:25] <kunal> easiy said than done.
[05:25] <kunal> i tried it. didnt work
[05:26] <impulse> wasn't being serious either
[05:26] <Aldaron> :)
[05:26] <kunal> fair enough.
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[05:26] <kunal> is the DNS same as nameserver?
[05:27] <Urchlay> basically, yes
[05:27] <Urchlay> more properly, DNS is Domain Name Service, which is the service provided by a name server... but that's kind of pedantic
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[05:28] <kunal> sort of. i right now running a ping.
[05:28] <kunal> trying to ping www.google.co.th
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[05:28] <kunal> nope.
[05:28] <Urchlay> maybe you should try to ping your default gateway first
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[05:29] <kunal> yes responding
[05:29] <kunal> respond well 0% loss.
[05:30] <kunal> oh my ISP requires me to enter a password on a webinterface
[05:30] <kunal> maybe thats why
[05:30] <kunal> username and password
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[05:31] <kunal> ah yes. the book just  got downloaded.
[05:31] <Urchlay> man I feel old
[05:32] <Urchlay> you're impatient because it takes you 10 mins to download something
[05:32] Action: Urchlay started with a 300 baud modem
[05:32] <Urchlay> ...and a computer that couldn't multitask, so I had to read a book or something, waiting hours for it to download stuff...
[05:33] <kunal> sorry
[05:33] <impulse> good old times :)
[05:33] <kunal> i never got to be lucky enough to use a 300 baud modem
[05:34] <_RadioHead> hmmm kde4 gives me head storm :)
[05:34] <kunal> the 1st one i used wsa  56k modem
[05:34] <impulse> lucky... :>
[05:36] <kunal> hey. is there X enviornment in the 1st slackware disk?
[05:37] <impulse> yep
[05:37] <BP{k}> no.
[05:37] <impulse> or not...
[05:37] <impulse> x)
[05:37] <kunal> :s
[05:37] <kunal> how to get X env then?
[05:37] <BP{k}> install the second cd
[05:38] <_RadioHead> hi BP{k}
[05:38] <BP{k}> kunal: http://slackware.com/getslack/torrents.php <-- shows you what is on each cd's
[05:38] <BP{k}> _RadioHead: howdy, how goes?
[05:38] <kunal> BP{k}: thanks
[05:39] <_RadioHead> good i just drink coffee :) so better now
[05:39] <_RadioHead> how about you?
[05:39] <BP{k}> Not too bad :)
[05:40] <_RadioHead> BP{k}: i bet not such bad as me :) i need to use logmein then to ssh on my linux box and fix kde4 problem:)
[05:40] <kunal> ha. i got an email from patrick volerding
[05:40] <kunal> volkerding
[05:40] <kunal> i am writing him back
[05:41] <kunal> oh. this is so exhilirating.
[05:41] <_RadioHead> also you kunal  :)
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[05:41] <_RadioHead> ?
[05:41] <IntangibleLiquid> trying to run Google Earth and encountered this problem: Mesa 7.0.3 implementation error: i915_program_error, any idea?
[05:41] <kunal> _RadioHead: did you ever get an emial from him?
[05:42] <_RadioHead> kunal: :) yes after i installed slackware:)
[05:42] <kunal> haha. cool.
[05:42] <frullet> kunal: everyone gets it when they do a fresh install of slackware
[05:42] <kunal> _RadioHead: is it possible to install the 2nd CD from console?
[05:43] <BP{k}> kunal: yes
[05:43] <_RadioHead> yes
[05:43] <_RadioHead> kunal:
[05:43] <kunal> thanks.
[05:43] <BP{k}> kunal: mount(8) and upgradepkg(8) || installpkg(8)
[05:43] <kunal> ok. thanks
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[05:46] <dtanner_> _RadioHead: hey man!  how have you been ? it has been a long time since i talked with you.
[05:46] <_RadioHead> hohoooo dtanner_ dude :) 1 min on the phone
[05:47] <dtanner_> k
[05:47] <_RadioHead> back :)
[05:47] <_RadioHead> dtanner_: :) how are you? how things ?
[05:47] <dtanner_> you still picking that guit-fiddle ? =)
[05:47] <dtanner_> things are going good here , and yrouself ?
[05:47] <_RadioHead> not bad
[05:47] <dtanner_> been a couple of years since we comunicated
[05:48] <_RadioHead> werking , actualy more staying now then working
[05:48] <_RadioHead> yes true
[05:48] <dtanner_> i have since built a home recording studio
[05:48] <_RadioHead> BUT now i promise to myself to be here almost everyday
[05:48] <_RadioHead> no way?:)
[05:48] <_RadioHead> how goes?
[05:48] <dtanner_> in the process of setting al back up , i am gutting the living room of furniture and setting up right here ,
[05:48] <dtanner_> :)
[05:49] <dtanner_> i was leasing a building for the studio and it got too expensive so setting it all up here at home now
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[05:49] <_RadioHead> dtanner_: better one place for all :) home/work
[05:49] <dtanner_> indeed
[05:49] <dtanner_> coffee is ready , brb
[05:50] <_RadioHead> :) 1 for me
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[05:51] <dtanner_> one coffee for you coming up +)
[05:51] <dtanner_> last tie i spoke with you you had just uploaded to youtube a video of you playing , i forget which song it was
[05:51] <IntangibleLiquid> how to get OpenGl for an intel card?
[05:51] <dtanner_> s/tie/time/
[05:52] <dtanner_> IntangibleLiquid: i have never done ti with Intel card myself, sorry.
[05:52] <_RadioHead> dtanner_: :) do no , maybe is other radiohead :)
[05:52] <BP{k}> kunal113: (8) means the section of the manpages where you find the corresponding manpage for the command I gave you.
[05:52] <BP{k}> kunal113: also .. do not pm me with that kind of question as I will not asnwer them in pm.
[05:53] <_RadioHead> BP{k}: :)
[05:53] <The-spiki> BP{k}: he tried the "asl, wanna cyber" approach on you?
[05:53] <slava_dp> IntangibleLiquid, just use the "intel" driver.
[05:54] <dtanner_> _RadioHead: maybe so , don;t you play an instrument though ? or either my memory is bad, in any event, good to see you again.
[05:54] <slava_dp> IntangibleLiquid, works for me.
[05:54] <IntangibleLiquid> slava_dp, really? coz Google Earth is running really slow so I think OpenGL is not there
[05:54] <_RadioHead> dtanner_: :) no me and instrument same like COMPUTER and Skenderbeg :)
[05:54] <_RadioHead> dtanner_: forgot i play only one instrument LOL
[05:54] <dtanner_> _RadioHead: maybe it was just that you are an avid music lover :P
[05:54] <dtanner_> hehe
[05:55] <_RadioHead> yep true
[05:55] <dtanner_> like i said until the last month or so i have not been on irc for a couple of years
[05:55] <slava_dp> IntangibleLiquid, run glxgears and see if it runs
[05:55] <_RadioHead> dtanner_: where u work now?
[05:55] <_RadioHead> dtanner_: yah long time
[05:55] <BP{k}> IntangibleLiquid: what does "glxinfo | grep direct" say?
[05:56] <dtanner_> _RadioHead: i moved to Ausint, TX. i realy like it here except for the traffic. and where are you again ?
[05:56] <dtanner_> Austin*
[05:56] <_RadioHead> dtanner_: Kosova :) hope u know where it is haha
[05:56] <dtanner_> =)
[05:56] <IntangibleLiquid> BP{k}, no protocol found / unable to open display
[05:56] <kunal113> oh Kosovo?
[05:56] <IntangibleLiquid> slava_dp, command not found
[05:56] <slava_dp> IntangibleLiquid, then you're screwed. did you do full install?
[05:57] <_RadioHead> kunal113: yep
[05:57] <kunal113> wow. i heard alot about it back in the days
[05:57] <kunal113> in the news
[05:57] <IntangibleLiquid> slava_dp, minimum install then build up from that point
[05:57] <slava_dp> IntangibleLiquid, something that supports glx is missing then.
[05:58] <_RadioHead> kunal113: yes it was a lot news...
[05:58] <slava_dp> IntangibleLiquid, did you install mesa-7.0.3-i486-1 ?
[05:59] <kunal113> _Radiohead: is it safe now?
[05:59] <BP{k}> IntangibleLiquid: wait, are you logged into X as your user, but running the command from a terminal as root?
[05:59] <dtanner_> _RadioHead: do you do much of making copies of your dvds and shrink them to fit on a cd and plya in a stand alone dvd player ?
[05:59] <dtanner_> play*
[05:59] <IntangibleLiquid> BP{k}, yes
[05:59] <slava_dp> lol
[05:59] <_RadioHead> dtanner_: nope
[05:59] <_RadioHead> kunal113: yes :) specialy for foreigners
[05:59] <BP{k}> IntangibleLiquid: okay, rerun the command but now as the user, you're logged in with please.
[06:00] <BP{k}> heh, my dad was in Kosovo for well .. "work"
[06:00] <_RadioHead> BP{k}: really?
[06:00] <dtanner_> it has been kickin my arse to shrink one to fit on a cd and play in a stand alone , i think i will just purchase some dual-layer-dvd blanks so i can make 1:1 copies
[06:01] <BP{k}> _RadioHead: yeah he did a 6 month stint with KFOR, mostly logistics side though.
[06:01] <_RadioHead> BP{k}: and nice 2 hear that
[06:01] <_RadioHead> BP{k}: hope he had good time here
[06:01] <IntangibleLiquid> BP{k}, direct rendering: yes
[06:01] <slava_dp> IntangibleLiquid, just install mesa :-)
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[06:02] <_RadioHead> BP{k}: u know in what city?
[06:03] <IntangibleLiquid> slava_dp, i have mesa-7.0.3 installed
[06:03] <_RadioHead> uh hard to take when u do upgradepkg --reinstall :)
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[06:03] <slava_dp> IntangibleLiquid, well you should get glxgears then. "slackpkg search glxgears" gives mesa.
[06:03] <_RadioHead> dtanner_: i would like to see her coldbyte :)
[06:04] <BP{k}> _RadioHead: hm not sure `good` would define it. He certainly found it intersting. He was station at the NATO HQ (aka film city) .. I think in Pristina
[06:04] <_RadioHead> BP{k}:  yes prishtina
[06:05] <dtanner_> _RadioHead: i remember coldbyte
[06:05] <IntangibleLiquid> slava_dp, noob question, but i can't install glxgears
[06:06] <dtanner_> root@seventakeone:/home/dtanner/storage/slackware-12.2-iso# grep glxgears /var/log/packages/*
[06:06] <dtanner_> /var/log/packages/mesa-7.0.3-i486-1:usr/bin/glxgears
[06:07] <IntangibleLiquid> dtanner_, yup, i have the same output
[06:07] <slava_dp> and still get "command not found"?
[06:08] <dtanner_> IntangibleLiquid: then what do you mean "can't install glxgears" ? type 'which glxgears'
[06:08] <IntangibleLiquid> slava_dp, dtanner_ hey it's there lolz
[06:08] <IntangibleLiquid> then why is google earth so slow anyway?
[06:08] <slava_dp> IntangibleLiquid, maybe because intel cards are slow.
[06:09] <dtanner_> IntangibleLiquid: when you run glxgears do you get a decent FPS ?
[06:09] <dtanner_> slava_dp: =)
[06:09] <BP{k}> IntangibleLiquid: which version of googleearth?
[06:09] <IntangibleLiquid> BP{k}, 5.0 but its been slow since the last versions
[06:09] <slava_dp> IntangibleLiquid, i get 770 fps on my intel with glxgears.
[06:10] <dtanner_> googleearth is pretty cool
[06:10] <IntangibleLiquid> slava_dp, the number keeps changing. it's standing at 3500 fps
[06:10] <dtanner_> that is damn good fps
[06:10] <dtanner_> dtanner@seventakeone:~/Music/trex/electric-warrior$ glxgears
[06:10] <dtanner_> 9179 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1835.736 FPS
[06:11] <slava_dp> IntangibleLiquid, 3500 FPS?? oh my
[06:11] <dtanner_> that is mine running glxgears ^
[06:11] <slava_dp> slava@slava[~]:-)$ glxgears
[06:11] <slava_dp> 4021 frames in 5.0 seconds = 804.175 FPS
[06:11] <IntangibleLiquid> 16101 frames in 5.0 seconds = 3220.200 FPS
[06:11] <IntangibleLiquid> 4265 frames in 5.0 seconds = 852.845 FPS
[06:11] <slava_dp> i have intel X3100
[06:12] <IntangibleLiquid> I have intel 950
[06:12] <dtanner_> I should be getting more with the nvidia onboard chip that i have, but no matter which version of nvidia driver i install tha is about all i get is around 1800 fps
[06:12] <_RadioHead> dtanner_: so u will never quit slackware :) haha | like i will never do
[06:12] <slackytude> 3220 FPS? heh
[06:13] <dtanner_> _RadioHead: never , as I msaid the other day quoting myself "slackware 12.2 is so stable it is almost boring" =) hich is a good thing :P
[06:13] <_RadioHead> ;)
[06:13] <kunal113> hey. Slackware does support dual monitors right?
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[06:13] <IntangibleLiquid> should give Arch a try though
[06:13] <slava_dp> IntangibleLiquid, wait, do you get the same fps when you let it run for a while?
[06:13] <_RadioHead> kunal113: i think only you need to configure your X
[06:13] <dtanner_> kunal113: that would be X supports dual monitors
[06:13] <slava_dp> IntangibleLiquid, cause intel 950 is less than intel x3100 :|
[06:14] <kunal113> ok.
[06:14] <slackytude> kunal113, working on dual monitors right now
[06:14] <IntangibleLiquid> slava_dp, it changes from 3100 to 3500 from time to time
[06:14] <slava_dp> good ;)
[06:14] <_RadioHead> dtanner_: forgot to tell you now i am working wish sun microsystems machines , but damn i need 2 servers here @office :)
[06:15] <dtanner_> http://wiki.osuosl.org/display/howto/Set+Up+Dual+Monitors+-+xorg.conf
[06:15] <dtanner_> _RadioHead: nice, i would think they are a good company to work for yes ?
[06:15] <_RadioHead> dtanner_: good job , and great machines
[06:15] <dtanner_> _RadioHead: do you have a college degree to get a position with them ?
[06:16] <kunal113> hey. my friend tells me slack got discontinued in 2003- 2004?
[06:16] <kunal113> is he joking or serious?
[06:16] <IntangibleLiquid> kunal113, he's serious :P
[06:16] <_RadioHead> dtanner_: one problem in 3 months:) , and if server site/room is in optimal conditions then maybe problems(hardware) apears in years
[06:16] <_RadioHead> dtanner_: yes
[06:16] <kunal113> IntangibleLiquid: :S
[06:16] <slackytude> kunal113, discontinued?
[06:17] <_RadioHead> kunal113: maybe u thought discount/less price :)
[06:17] <slackytude> there was a rather big version jump around that time
[06:17] <kunal113> haha. he said no more updates
[06:17] <IntangibleLiquid> slava_dp, so what am i supposed to do now?
[06:17] <slackytude> kunal113, dirty lies!
[06:17] <kunal113> all these liars.
[06:17] <kunal113> everyone says to me that debian, suse and ubuntu are the best distros
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[06:18] <kunal113> but when i read their histories. its so dull
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[06:18] <BP{k}> kunal113: you do realise that "best" is a highly subjective term
[06:18] <IntangibleLiquid> kunal113, they're the most popular, not the best
[06:18] <kunal113> BP{k}: yes I do.
[06:18] <kunal113> they mean it in the sense easies to use
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[06:18] <kunal113> userfriendliness is what they mean
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[06:19] <BP{k}> "easy" is also subjective ;)
[06:19] <kunal113> but I know in the core, Slackware is the best.
[06:19] <_RadioHead> BP{k}: :) right
[06:19] <tank-man> you mean automagic, something works, its magic, something breaks its magic too
[06:20] <slava_dp> IntangibleLiquid, whatever :) intel is intel. accelleration works for you and i doubt you could tweak some more performance out of your card.
[06:20] <dtanner_> tank-man: yeah , and to reverse the magic spell can be hell on other distros.
[06:20] <kunal113> tank-man:exactly
[06:20] <kunal113> tank-man: something goes wrong on ubuntu. you have no idea what went worng
[06:20] <kunal113> wrong
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[06:22] <kunal113> well. lets keep this slacware community on. for the betterment of Peter Voliskierrierieing
[06:22] <kunal113> slackware*
[06:24] <_RadioHead> it is on always :)
[06:25] <kunal113> well yeah. i'll try to be pro slackware for as long as I can. until i give up and cant figure out things anymore
[06:25] <kunal113> then maybe i'll go to Win7
[06:25] <kunal113> or to SuSE or Ubuntu.
[06:26] <t0f> is there a real advantage to using 'cmake'? i think living in 'dependancy hell' is bad enough, but having to learn a new compiler, sheez
[06:29] <t0f> i'm trying to make stellarium and 'cmake .' is barfing
[06:29] <t0f> i think it says that i need to install some qmake thing
[06:30] <t0f> CMake Error at /usr/local/share/cmake-2.6/Modules/FindQt4.cmake:1566 (MESSAGE):
[06:30] <t0f>   Qt qmake not found!
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[06:30] <BP{k}> t0f: ls -l /var/log/packages/qt*
[06:30] <t0f> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 146371 2008-05-08 10:46 /var/log/packages/qt-3.3.8b-i486-2
[06:31] <BP{k}> heh. well 1) stellarium requires qt4 2) why do you have cmake installed in /usr/local/*
[06:31] <BP{k}> 3) http://slackbuilds.org/repository/12.2/academic/stellarium/
[06:31] <t0f> that is where checkinstall put it
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[06:32] <BP{k}> ..........
[06:32] <t0f> BP{k}: is there one for 12.1, also? i still haven't upgraded this p3
[06:33] <BP{k}> t0f: http://slackbuilds.org/repository/12.1/academic/stellarium/
[06:33] <t0f> thanks
[06:33] <BP{k}> whattayaknow. :P
[06:34] <BP{k}> t0f: I hope you have removed cmake first from your system?
[06:34] <t0f> i rm'ed the older one
[06:34] <_RadioHead> upgradepkg almost finished:) ,praying kde will work
[06:34] <t0f> before i installed the one that i just compiled
[06:35] <BP{k}> Personally, I can't see why you use checkinstall instead of the buildscripts.
[06:35] <t0f> i'll have to look into buildscripts
[06:35] <Richlv> has anybody tried using -current, but with latest kde3 packages ?
[06:35] <_RadioHead> BP{k}: exactly , i like buildscripts :0more then checkinstall
[06:36] <_RadioHead> actually i never use for years checkinstall
[06:36] <t0f> BP{k}: do i need to rm cmake, totally?
[06:36] <_RadioHead> *don`t
[06:36] <BP{k}> Richlv: you mean -current with KDE3 from 12.2?
[06:36] <BP{k}> t0f: I would.
[06:36] <Richlv> BP{k}, yes
[06:36] <t0f> ok
[06:36] <BP{k}> Richlv: no. I doubt anyone would.
[06:36] <Richlv> BP{k}, damn. well, i'll be trying that soon ;)
[06:37] <Richlv> i want -current, but with kde3...
[06:37] <t0f> BP{k}: also, i just need that slackbuild for /stellarium/ ?
[06:37] <BP{k}> t0f: plus any dependencies as noted by the README.
[06:37] <t0f> ok
[06:37] <BP{k}> _RadioHead: yeah, I think I used checkinstall once or twice.
[06:37] <BP{k}> t0f: you're gonna have fun compiling boost + qt4 on a P3.
[06:39] <t0f> oh my, you are right
[06:39] <slackytude> heh
[06:39] <t0f> i'll put this project on the back burner dor my p4
[06:39] <slackytude> boost and qt4
[06:39] <t0f> for*
[06:40] <slackytude> just go on a vaccation
[06:40] <slackytude> will be donme when you are back
[06:40] <BP{k}> slackytude: where vacation is > a month away?
[06:40] <t0f> slackytude: i wish (:
[06:40] <slackytude> around a month, yeah ^-^
[06:40] Action: BP{k} is tempted hogging kethry's P3 to try ;)
[06:41] <slackytude> heh
[06:41] <t0f> BP{k}: will qt4 be included in the next slack release?
[06:41] <BP{k}> t0f: yes.
[06:41] <t0f> i will wait
[06:41] <slackytude> heh
[06:41] <BP{k}> so will boost for that matter.
[06:42] <slackytude> probably sooner
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[06:42] <t0f> i have boost installed
[06:42] <t0f> ls -l /var/log/packages/boost*
[06:42] <t0f> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 870617 2008-08-17 21:07 /var/log/packages/boost_1_36_0-20080817-i386-1
[06:43] <_RadioHead> t0f: in -current now you can use qt4
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[06:44] <t0f> is there really a need for other "makers" like cmake?
[06:44] <slackytude> morning Old_Fogie
[06:44] <_RadioHead> BP{k}: i never tried to remote desktop on slackware , a point where to start?
[06:44] <Richlv> BP{k}, for the record, kde3 seems to work on -current :)
[06:45] <Richlv> at session, opera, konsole, amarok, konqueror all start up =)
[06:45] <Richlv> (at least)
[06:45] <Richlv> _RadioHead, on slow networks, nx rules
[06:46] <tewmten> hey =)
[06:46] <BP{k}> t0f: cmake is sepere and a more highlevel application suite than make as far as I understand
[06:46] <_RadioHead> tewmten: hey dude :)
[06:46] <BP{k}> tewmten: :)
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[06:46] <t0f> BP{k}: oh, ok
[06:46] <tewmten> does anyone know if it is possible with apache to make an htaccess to not require auth from certain hosts?
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[06:46] <_RadioHead> Richlv: yes true , i can ssh but for some reason sometimes i need remote desktop
[06:47] <_RadioHead> but i never tried before
[06:47] <tewmten> like I would like to make an intranet site not require auth when surfing through it from inside the office but when from outside it will require auth
[06:47] <BP{k}> t0f: plus cmake does make it easier to write code once and use it on many systems/platforms
[06:47] <tewmten> _RadioHead, BP{k} =)
[06:47] <Richlv> t0f, cmake replace autotools
[06:47] <Richlv> sort of
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[06:47] <BP{k}> tewmten: I am gonna go with "sure that should be possible" but don't ask me how ;)
[06:47] <Richlv> _RadioHead, um, that's why i said nx
[06:48] <_RadioHead> Richlv: :)
[06:48] <t0f> i tried to install 'celestia-gtk-1.4.1.x86.package' but it kept going out to the internet and failing to find things that it needs, so i "tried" stellarium, sheez
[06:48] <_RadioHead> BP{k}: :)
[06:48] <IntangibleLiquid> so i915 is the default driver for intel cards now, or should I switch back to i810?
[06:49] <BP{k}> t0f: http://slackbuilds.org/repository/12.1/academic/celestia/
[06:49] <t0f> BP{k}: you think i might have better luck with that one on my p3?
[06:50] <BP{k}> t0f: it won't require qt4 ;)
[06:50] <t0f> that's a plus
[06:50] <_RadioHead> Richlv: now i figure out what is nx :)arrrg / i was thinking u r talking for nix* systems nix like...
[06:50] <BP{k}> it has a KDE3/Glut interface that should work. and GTK with one dep.
[06:50] <t0f> just gtk 10.8 hehehehehe
[06:50] <BP{k}> nah, slackware's gtk + gtkglext
[06:52] <slava_dp> IntangibleLiquid, "intel" is the driver.
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[06:52] <_RadioHead> Richlv: and thx
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[06:57] <_RadioHead> damn again could not start kde
[06:58] Nick change: dtanner_ -> dtanner
[06:58] <t0f> my Dell p4 (w / i915 onboard video) just wont play ball with linux. maybe i should install xp and sell it for a non-propritary p4
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[07:00] <monstro> Hi all,
[07:00] <monstro> What is the file system many used in Slack ? ext2/3/4, reiserfers, xfs?
[07:01] <BP{k}> monstro: yes
[07:01] <monstro> yes?
[07:01] <monstro> what?
[07:01] <BP{k}> well probably with the exception of ext4.
[07:01] <ananke> monstro : the answer is yes
[07:01] <monstro> what is the "best" ?
[07:02] <ananke> monstro : there is no 'best', since you haven't defined 'best'
[07:02] <BP{k}> monstro: the one that suits "$SITUATION with $DEMANDS which is met by $FILESYSTEM"
[07:02] <_RadioHead> i use reiserfs always :)
[07:02] <_RadioHead> hi ananke
[07:02] <ananke> hi
[07:03] <t0f> speaking of fourth extended fs. are they going to try to make it mountable as a ext3, sometime? or does the use of extents make that impossible?
[07:03] <alienBOB> Yes it does
[07:03] <t0f> ic
[07:03] <alienBOB> ext3 does no know about extents
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[07:05] <t0f> maybe it can be backported?
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[07:07] <t0f> i took a partition for an ext4 test drive. it seems very nice
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[07:08] <ananke> backporting it would no longer make it ext3, since you wouldn't be able to use existing ext3 tools
[07:08] <t0f> ah, ok
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[07:13] <t0f> anyone know whar Pat is going to name the next release? 12.3 or 13.0
[07:13] <t0f> what*
[07:13] <BP{k}> t0f: yes.
[07:13] <t0f> heh
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[07:13] <BP{k}> oh "name" sorry, I thouht you asked when it was going to be relased.
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[07:14] <BP{k}> still, yes is at least partially correct. ;)
[07:15] <t0f> hehehehe
[07:15] <t0f> some people might think that he should skip 13.0
[07:16] <kunal> 13.0 ? as in distro?
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[07:16] <t0f> maybe 13.BlackCat or something (:
[07:16] <kunal> yes. good idea
[07:16] <kunal> blackcat would be cool
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[07:18] <t0f> BP{k}: no, i never ask "when" a distro will be released. i know that it'll be released when they think it's ready
[07:19] <_RadioHead> whatever be numbered new release always is wellcome :)
[07:19] <_RadioHead> time fore fueal and coffee :)
[07:20] <_RadioHead> for*
[07:20] <hitest> coffee!!!
[07:20] <hitest> 2nd cup
[07:20] <_RadioHead> also here :) 2nd
[07:20] <_RadioHead> init coffee
[07:20] <t0f> coffee is like nectar of the gods
[07:20] <hitest> yes
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[07:21] <t0f> i grind coffee beans every morning
[07:22] <t0f> i should buy a roaster
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[07:34] <t0f> has anyone had any success soldering in an agp card slot into a Dell p4?
[07:36] <t0f> the built-in i915 is driving me nuts
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[07:41] <t0f> i can hack the cmos to accept the new slot (i think)
[07:42] <t0f> i guess this is all uncharted waters
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[08:03] <tewmten> BP{k}: yeah i got some help at another playce, its called Satisfy, that will do what I want, http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/core.html#satisfy
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[08:21] <slackytude> boss birthday today
[08:21] <slackytude> we went eating steaks ^-^
[08:21] Action: slackytude ate too much to work
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[08:33] <Panzer> got to love it.  You talk about eating steaks.  I have just gotten up.
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[08:40] <slava_dp> the world is a nice big place. everyone lives to his own time on irc.
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[08:44] <slackytude> ^-^
[08:45] <slackytude> Panzer, steak for breakfast+
[08:45] <Panzer> I can do a hamburger with egg.  But other then that not steak
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[08:47] Action: slava_dp would love to get a hamburger but he already had lunch.
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[08:47] <slackytude> eh, dont talk about food
[08:53] <slackytude> my workmate keeps using the phrase "Im pissed on"
[08:53] <slava_dp> slackytude, lol that's funny
[08:54] <slava_dp> slackytude, looks like we're the only ones left alive on the channel. America is still asleep :-)
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[08:55] <xaviertoor> @in4007
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[08:57] Nick change: Kaapa_ -> Kaapa
[08:58] <frullet> australia is still alive and kicking
[08:59] <hitest> Canada is alive.......eh!
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[09:02] <Dominian> eh
[09:04] <hitest> :)
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[09:06] <_RadioHead> hello Dominian
[09:07] <_RadioHead> hmm i think i am in good road to find why kde4 is not starting
[09:09] <Dominian> eh
[09:10] <_RadioHead> guidance-power-manager
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[09:11] <_RadioHead> problem is how to solve this :)
[09:11] <kr_eten> hi, i have problems running svn module of apache under slackware 12.2
[09:11] <kr_eten> it complains about an unresolved symbol
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[09:39] <agentc0re> Mornin all.
[09:40] <slava_dp> afternoon, agentc0re
[09:42] <slackytude> slava_dp, the zombies are awake
[09:44] Action: agentc0re does the zombie dance
[09:44] <slackytude> put your arms in front, "braaains", break it down
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[10:14] <_RadioHead> see this message : guidance-power-manager(5652): Communication problem with  "guidance-power-manager" , it probably crashed.
[10:15] <jkwood> removepkg guidance-power-manager
[10:16] <jkwood> Problem solved.
[10:16] <nathanbw> W00t! My freakin' scanner worked out of the box. I can't believe it.
[10:16] <_RadioHead> jkwood: trying ;) and one more q , where the hell is  guidance-power-manager?  mean in what pkg?
[10:17] <jkwood> guidance-power-manager.
[10:17] <Dominian> heh
[10:17] <jkwood> It's not a core part of KDE.
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[10:17] <slackytude> funky name
[10:17] <_RadioHead> arrg :) runing find on -current :)
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[10:18] <_RadioHead> found :)
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[10:18] <_RadioHead> it is inside kde/
[10:18] <jkwood> _RadioHead: ls /var/log/packages/guidance-power-manager*
[10:18] <kitche> es but it's not needed by kde4
[10:18] <slava_dp> i get "communication problem with plasma - probably crashed" after i start the new kde but everything works.
[10:18] <jkwood> It *is* it's own package.
[10:19] <_RadioHead> kitche: here @ my job working great kde4 i isntalled when was in testing...
[10:19] <jkwood> It's not in kdelibs, or kdebase, or kde-random-bits...
[10:19] <slackytude> silence!
[10:19] <slackytude> I kill you
[10:19] <slackytude> O_o
[10:19] <_RadioHead> but @ home/old job nope
[10:19] <slackytude> wrong channel
[10:19] <slava_dp> and also kded4 eats 100% of my cpu for extended periods of time till i restart kde.
[10:19] <kitche> _RadioHead: and your point or just wrong nick :P
[10:19] <_RadioHead> kitche: :) my point hope i resolve problem starting kde @oldJOB
[10:19] Action: jkwood goes to class
[10:20] <_RadioHead> jkwood: later
[10:20] <slava_dp> so for me kde is still like a beta. you get bugfixes and new features but you also get a ton of new bugs with every release :)
[10:21] <slava_dp> the kwin compositor is still flaky for me. some things work, others don't. and i get visual artifacts regularly :)
[10:21] <slava_dp> (which i don't get if the compositor is off)
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[10:22] <slava_dp> so yeah, not a production system if it has kde4, i should say. no problem for leisure machine though.
[10:23] <kitche> slava_dp: kde4 really deals heavy with your video card
[10:23] <fred> depends on your video card.
[10:24] <fred> also, turn off nepomuk if you're having kded take up a load of CPU
[10:24] <slava_dp> fred, thanks for suggestions.
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[10:25] <slava_dp> my graphics card is relatively old but i can't upgrade cause it sits in an agp slot. it's gf 4200 titanium. was a great card once.
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[10:26] <fred> slava_dp: if you've got an onboard intel, it might work better :p
[10:26] <straterra> slava_dp: There are older, much more powerful AGP cards
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[10:27] <slava_dp> fred, i have two machines. intel is in my laptop and that gf is at home.
[10:27] <slava_dp> straterra, like?
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[10:28] <straterra> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161226
[10:28] <straterra> Or more appropriately http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+1069609639&Configurator=&Subcategory=48&description=&Ntk=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=
[10:29] <straterra> Oh..they made the 7600 GT in AGP
[10:29] <slava_dp> straterra, wow. i will look into that closer. i thought agp died long ago O_o
[10:29] <straterra> Well..it did
[10:30] <straterra> 7 series is like 4 generations ago :P
[10:30] <straterra> But there are still faster cards than what you currently have
[10:30] <slava_dp> i'm really past the progress. haven't checked computing news for the past two years :)
[10:31] <Panzer> wow I guess you forget the 5xxx series 6xxx series and some of the 7xxx series cards.
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[10:31] <straterra> Panzer: eh?
[10:31] <Panzer> though if I where going to upgrade to a newer then geforce 4 I would go to the 6xxx stuff.
[10:32] <straterra> I'd go with the 7600
[10:32] <straterra> It's going to be around the same price
[10:32] <slackytude> ATI radeon monil FTW!
[10:32] <slackytude> mobil even
[10:32] <Panzer> there if I recall is a PCIe to agp converter in the 7 series
[10:32] <slava_dp> what about a radeon? or am i going to have trouble with drivers?
[10:32] <Panzer> might not work with some boards.
[10:32] <straterra> Panzer: as there is on the 6 series
[10:33] <slackytude> slava_dp, I just use the radeon that comes with X
[10:33] <straterra> The entire 6 series was native PCI Express with an AGP bridge on the card
[10:33] <Panzer> oh I thought the 6 series was still native
[10:33] <straterra> Nopr
[10:33] <straterra> Nope^
[10:33] <slava_dp> slackytude, is it "radeonhd" ?
[10:33] <Panzer> ok well darn
[10:33] <slackytude> slava_dp, Id say no, but I aint sure
[10:33] <slackytude> slava_dp, dont have laptop with me atmn
[10:33] <slackytude> slava_dp, dont have laptop with me atm
[10:34] <slava_dp> ok, i will check what is available for radeons.
[10:34] <slava_dp> thanks guys :)
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[10:36] <fred> slava_dp: I also used to have a 7800 AGP IIRC
[10:37] <jkwood> Yeah, cards for AGP can still be had reasonably cheap.
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[10:41] <Panzer> but why?
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[10:41] <toor> I can't find grub on slackware, why?
[10:41] <jkwood> toor: Slackware uses lilo by default.  Grub is in extra/, though.
[10:42] <_RadioHead> init ~ later people
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[10:46] <fuzzbawl> I think I may have to ditch Xinerama in favor of TwinView :(
[10:46] <toor> hm, where can I write down export PS1='...'?
[10:46] <toor> there is no bashrc on /etc or in the home
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[10:47] <Dominian> just create a .bashrc
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[10:49] <tavl> any idea why 'hwinfo' would return 2 monitors, instead of 1, as i have only one videocard?
[10:49] <toor> k, works :)
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[10:50] <kr_eten> hi, i have problems running svn module of apache under slackware 12.2
[10:50] <Kaapa> wtf is hwinfo?
[10:50] <straterra> tavl: one video card can have multiple heads
[10:50] <toor> do I have to go from 12.0 to 12.1 and then to 12.2 or can I directly go to 12.2?
[10:50] <toor> Kaapa: how the name suggests, it shows hardware information
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[10:51] <kr_eten> toor, basically you can go to 12.2, but according to me. slack upgrade is not a trivial task
[10:51] Nick change: SlackNeo_ -> SlackNeo
[10:51] <kr_eten> to me,*
[10:52] <tavl> straterra, yeah, i know, but i'm sure there's only one monitor connected to my gfx
[10:52] <tavl> straterra: its kinda weird
[10:52] <toor> I have installed 11.0 from CD, and I thinked I have to go through 11.1, 11.2 and so on until I'm on 12.2 :D
[10:52] <toor> but it goes from 11.0 to 12.0
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[10:54] <toor> I have to become friendly with slackware first :D
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[10:55] <nullboy> .
[10:56] <toor> the current dir is a unstable tree of slackware?
[10:56] <nullboy> i wouldn't exactly call it unstable, more like testing
[10:57] <straterra> But..it may or may not be broken at any given time
[10:57] <straterra> It usually isn't
[10:57] <straterra> But the warning still holds true
[10:58] <jkwood> A Slack upgrade is fairly simple, in my experience.
[10:58] <jkwood> kr_eten:  Are you talking about Apache, or a module for Apache?
[10:59] <Kaapa> nullboy: after downgrading to k3b from 12.2, it started working again, did you try it?
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[11:00] <toor> jkwood: I don't think it'ssimple, there are some packages you have to upgrade in the right order
[11:00] <toor> without looking in upgrade.txt it doesn't work
[11:01] <jkwood> That's what upgrade.txt is for.
[11:01] <toor> Kaapa: how do you downgrade? removepkg and installpkg? :D
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[11:01] <jkwood> toor: upgradepkg.
[11:02] <kr_eten> I am pretty sure it is about module of apache
[11:02] <toor> upgradepkg writes a old package version about a new one?
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[11:02] <kr_eten> jkwood, it complains where i try to load svn module
[11:03] <kr_eten> about an unresolved symbol in some lib
[11:03] <person> When I fail to compile a kernel, do I need to run make mrproper to get the kernel back into its base state before trying again?
[11:03] <jkwood> toor: upgradepkg is "dumb".  It simply sees that the package you want to install is "different" not necessarily older or newer.
[11:03] <jkwood> kr_eten: Can you put the error in http://pastebin.slackadelic.com ?
[11:03] <Dominian> yeah it would be nice if upgradepkg saw there were TWO packages of the same name.. one with a higher number than the other.. like.. when someone forgets to remove them from the mirror...
[11:03] <straterra> person: you can..but you should backup your config
[11:03] <straterra> mrproper will nuke the config
[11:04] <person> Is it necessary to run make mrproper?
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[11:04] <straterra> No
[11:04] <person> Marvellous
[11:04] <jkwood> Dominian: hehehe
[11:04] <kr_eten> jkwood, just as moment
[11:05] <jkwood> Dominian: http://slaxer.com/myscripts/pkgdupe
[11:05] <kr_eten> http://pastebin.slackadelic.com/11109
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[11:10] <Dominian> jkwood: yeah I've seen that
[11:11] <jkwood> http://www.nabble.com/Problem-with-mod_dav_svn-on-Ubuntu-Server-td17834820.html <-- kr_eten
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[11:12] <jkwood> Where did you get the svn module?
[11:12] Nick change: SlackNeo_ -> SlackNeo
[11:12] <kr_eten> well i searched with google
[11:13] <kr_eten> and found some build issues, but i have not built the httpd myself
[11:13] <kr_eten> nor any of its modules
[11:13] <jkwood> No need to build httpd.
[11:13] <kr_eten> and the module is from slackware repository
[11:13] <kr_eten> i guess from subversion package
[11:13] <toor> where can I find mkinitramfs?
[11:13] <kr_eten> not pretty sure
[11:14] <nullboy> mkinitrd
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[11:14] <toor> no, mkinitramfs, not mkinitrd
[11:14] <jkwood> Hmm... That's odd.
[11:15] <toor> what is slackpkg? :D
[11:15] <nullboy> toor: again, mkinitrd
[11:15] <jkwood> A remote package manager for Slackware.
[11:16] <toor> nullboy: I do not mean mkinitrd!
[11:16] <toor> I _mean_ mkinitramfs
[11:17] <jkwood> kr_eten: It is indeed in the subversion package.  I have no idea why it's not working. =/
[11:17] <toor> mkinitrd doesn't work for actual kernel
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[11:17] <toor> so I need mkinitramfs
[11:17] <straterra> eh?
[11:17] <straterra> doesnt work for actual kernel?
[11:17] <nullboy> what the hell are you talking about?
[11:17] <straterra> Explain
[11:17] <toor> just doesn't work
[11:17] <toor> mkinitrd doesn't work, mkinitramfs works
[11:17] <toor> that's all
[11:17] <nullboy> what doesn't work?
[11:17] <straterra> how doesn't it work?
[11:18] <toor> the initial ram disk doesn't work
[11:18] <straterra> How doesn't it work?
[11:18] <nullboy> you're doing it wrong
[11:18] <toor> results in a kernel panix
[11:18] <toor> panic
[11:18] <nullboy> ...
[11:18] <straterra> With what message?
[11:18] <nullboy> it's "kernel panic" not panix
[11:18] <agentc0re|work> toor: you're probably missing a module that it needs to load.  Thats my guess.
[11:18] <toor> don't know, all I can say is that mkinitrd results in a kernel panic and mkinitramfs doesn't
[11:19] <straterra> Well..maybe you should see the message?
[11:19] <jkwood> It should tell you why it's panicking.
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[11:19] <toor> but that's not my interest, I just want to use mkinitramfs and the world is ok :)
[11:19] <nullboy> i'm more interested in my mr toor is the only one claiming that mkinitrd doesn't work....
[11:20] <nullboy> you'd think we would have heard about that
[11:20] <nullboy> ...
[11:20] <nullboy> my/why
[11:20] <nullboy> toor: so you found some amazing bug in mkinitrd?
[11:20] <jkwood> Unless he's using ext4 with an older mkinitrd.
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[11:20] <Arirang> Is KDE 4.2 pretty stable?
[11:20] <kr_eten> jkwood, thanks i will keep asking these days, maybe someone could help
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[11:21] <jkwood> Arirang: In my experience, yes.
[11:21] <kr_eten> that was my point in asking here. it is kind of slackware problem, according to me
[11:22] <jkwood> Have you tried asking in #apache by chance?
[11:22] <toor> ohooo, slackpkg rocks :)
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[11:22] <tank-man> testing
[11:23] <jkwood> tank-man: We can't see you.  Reconnect.
[11:23] <toor> if I had know about that before the 11.0 installation I hadn't to wget the slackware dir :D
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[11:30] <tank-man> i powered down my router and modem and powered back and and I didnt disconnect :)
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[11:30] <jkwood> tank-man: SSH/irc is amazingly resilient to that kind of thing.
[11:31] <Dominian> screen + irssi on a remote server ftw
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[11:32] <jkwood> Indeed.
[11:32] <tank-man> I even did a /etc/rc.d/rc.inet1 restart :)
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[11:47] <kamaji> My building is on fire :<
[11:48] <kamaji> _and_ i was right in the middle of a game of warcraft
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[11:48] <jkwood> kamaji: Correllation != causation.
[11:48] <kamaji> lol
[11:49] <slackytude> xkcd has a nice comic about that
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[11:58] <kr_eten> jkwood, i will try maybe (asking in #apache)
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[12:47] <nullboy> YEAH!
[12:48] <jkwood> NAY!
[12:48] <Zordrak> eBAY!
[12:49] <dive> o0
[12:49] <dive> exclamation partay!
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[12:53] Action: jkwood is still trying to figure out what nullboy is on about
[12:53] <sid77> WTF!
[12:53] <Dominian>  [ in bed ]
[12:53] <sid77> ops
[12:53] <sid77> WTFay!
[12:53] <sid77> much better
[12:54] <jkwood>  [ in bed ]
[12:54] <acidchild> form.elements[num].value = (number * ((num++) -1));
[12:55] Morg0th (n=nico@ip-80-236-223-205.dsl.scarlet.be) left ##slackware.
[12:55] <acidchild> anyone know what the -1 at the end of this means on java script?
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[12:55] <acidchild> is it 'take away 1'
[12:55] <Dominian> minus 1
[12:55] <acidchild> or is it infinity
[12:55] <Dominian> minus 1
[12:55] <Dominian> take a way 1
[12:55] <acidchild> ok
[12:55] <kitche> acidchild: -1
[12:55] <kitche> :P\
[12:55] <acidchild> - 1
[12:55] <acidchild> diffrence
[12:55] <Dominian> although depending on how much of a pita the javascript is.. it could mean -1 (negative 1)
[12:55] <Dominian> but with that it appears to be minus 1
[12:56] <kitche> -1 means it does the minus before it outputs it
[12:56] <acidchild> i understand about the ()'s
[12:56] <acidchild> :>
[12:56] <Dominian> no 'and then'!
[12:56] <sid77> acidchild: I think it's a braindead way of incrementing "num" but then accesing "num+1-1"
[12:56] <sid77> *accessing
[12:57] <acidchild> Ah
[12:57] <sid77> I think ++num would have done the job better
[12:57] <acidchild> http://www.csgnetwork.com/harmonicscalc.html
[12:57] <sid77> try greasemonkeying it ;-)
[12:58] <acidchild> yeah
[12:58] <kitche> well it depends on how it's doing it really it could be times number with num(plus 1) then substracting 1
[12:59] <acidchild> ahh its talking about this in the header on the file
[12:59] <acidchild> hehe
[12:59] <sid77> kitche: don't think so, there are parenthesis here ordering the sum
[12:59] <sid77> lol
[12:59] <sid77> i was leaving, now I've to open the browser again ;-)
[12:59] <acidchild> its saying some people think the first harmonic is the freq
[12:59] <twolf> ad
[13:00] <acidchild> not its seq starting at 1 not 0
[13:00] <fuzzbawl> are any of the cardinal boys here?
[13:00] <fred> fuzzbawl: hmmm?
[13:00] <acidchild> they are in a dickjam pile up on ghey avenue.
[13:00] <kitche> sid77: ah didn't see the ones inside the outside parenthesis
[13:00] <fuzzbawl> acidchild: noted
[13:01] <kitche> sid77: yeah that is a bit dumb how it's stated
[13:01] <sid77> np
[13:01] <fuzzbawl> fred: alan sent me a drive. it showev up
[13:01] <acidchild> ER has reported 2 fataly wonded and 1 in a uncontrolable climax.
[13:01] <fuzzbawl> i'll memoserv him and let him know
[13:01] <sid77> I'm still for the ++sum (if js ever understand it) theory
[13:01] <sid77> bye all
[13:01] <fred> fuzzbawl: will pass it on
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[13:02] <acidchild> sid77: bubye :> thx
[13:03] <acidchild> fuzzbawl: Neva ment to make ya momma cry, i apologize a million times lala
[13:03] <acidchild> fuzzbawl: good morning sir =]
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[13:03] <fuzzbawl> acidchild: good morning!
[13:03] <fuzzbawl> more afternoon here actually
[13:03] <acidchild> aye.
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[13:13] <ed____> Hello
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[13:14] <ed____> I'm being told by make modules_install that modules.order isn't present.
[13:15] <thrice`> have you ran "make" yet?
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[13:15] <ed____> Ah I found the problem
[13:15] <ed____> Didn't run make modules, sorry
[13:16] <thrice`> "make" should cover that
[13:16] <dive> you don't need to 'make modules' with recent kernels
[13:16] <dive> just make
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[13:16] <dive> ...
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[13:19] <kitche> you don't even have to do make modules_install either
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[13:25] <fred> alienBOB: http://forums.slamd64.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1380 has a 64-bit fix for your tvtime script
[13:26] <agentc0re|work> kitche: ... What?  Really?
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[13:27] <agentc0re|work> kitche: I've always done make && make modules_install && make install, is there a different way to accomplish the same?
[13:27] <kitche> agentc0re|work: well I just do make install but if you wanted you could do make && make install
[13:28] <agentc0re|work> hrm, interesting.
[13:29] <dive> I do make, make modules_install, then cp files over
[13:30] <dive> being a heaven who doesn't like make install
[13:30] <dive> erm heathen
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[13:30] <person> Good day
[13:30] <agentc0re|work> heh.
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[13:30] <agentc0re|work> I can see why you don't like it if you like to keep your old vmlinuz.
[13:31] <person> I was just trying to compile kdisser but it says that msgfmt is not found and yet slapt-get says it's up-to-date
[13:31] <agentc0re|work> Come to think of it though, i think it moves it and calls it vmlinuz.old
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[13:31] <dive> yeah I put vmlinuz-2.x.x-custom in lilo
[13:31] <straterra> We don't support slapt-get
[13:31] <person> So I gathered... why is that?
[13:31] <straterra> Because its unofficial and has a history of breaking things
[13:31] <person> Oh right
[13:32] <jkwood> >_<
[13:32] <person> Wow that's menacing
[13:32] <straterra> What is?
[13:32] <person> >_<
[13:32] <fred> there's also slackpkg :p
[13:32] <person> Ah yes
[13:33] <dive> «» «»
[13:33] <dive>  ___
[13:33] <jkwood> It's not meant to be menacing.
[13:33] <jkwood> More like squinting in pain.
[13:34] <person> Looks like I didn't have the package I needed. Installed it from the slackware dvd
[13:34] <person> well, cd
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[13:38] <dios_mio> how do you install a .tgz again?
[13:39] <dive> installpkg or 'upgradepkg --install-new'
[13:39] <dios_mio> thanks man
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[13:39] Action: fred strongly advoactes always using the latter
[13:39] <fred> *advocates
[13:40] <dive> yeah - alias up='upgradepkg --install-new'
[13:40] <dive> make life easier
[13:41] <dive> except when you have to do 'up yours-1.5.10-i486-1.tgz'
[13:41] <dive> :D
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[13:41] <person> dios_mio: Slackbook is pretty good and covers that :)
[13:41] <hector__> how do I print to a windows print server from slackware?
[13:42] <kitche> gah I need to learn the binds for windows 11(plus) for irssi
[13:42] <kitche> hector__: using samba and cups
[13:42] <straterra> hector__: google linux windows printing cups samba
[13:42] <straterra> GOGOGO
[13:42] <hector__> I though that cups wasnt needed at all
[13:42] <hector__> thought
[13:44] <kitche> nope it's needed
[13:44] <dios_mio> thanks person  :)
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[13:45] <person> Okay
[13:46] <fuzzbawl> bbl
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[13:50] <Gargantua> I have developed a cure for baldness.
[13:50] <Gargantua> It involves bald people becoming my keyboard.
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[13:51] <hector__> do I need to have the printer hardware driver to print to the windows printing server_?
[13:52] <hector__> It asking for the printer ppd file
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[13:54] <hector__> I cant use that printer in Linux because the drivers are a pos
[13:54] <dive> I think you still need the linux drivers for cups to work with it(?) Dunno for sure..
[13:55] <dive> then you usually specify it's ipp:// address
[13:55] <dive> or whichever protocol it's using
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[13:55] <dive> smb name perhaps
[13:56] <hector__> yep
[13:59] <dtanner> hector__: http://myy.haaga-helia.fi/~karte/print_from_linux_to_windows_server.html
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[14:06] <Cotowar> how well will slackware install on a 400MHz P2 proc with 128MB PC133 RAM?
[14:06] <jkwood> Pretty well, I should think.
[14:06] <straterra> It'll install
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[14:07] <Cotowar> Okies. will I have a GUI, or will it be command line only? I was reading that you can install it without a desktop so to speak
[14:07] <straterra> If you want X..you can run it
[14:07] <Dominian> Cotowar: You could easily use fluxbox with that setup
[14:08] <straterra> Or use IceWM..or E17!
[14:08] <straterra> E17 is sex
[14:08] <Dominian> pff yah
[14:08] <Cotowar> Dominian: what is fluxbox
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[14:09] <Dominian> a window manager
[14:10] <Cotowar> oooo, i think im going to try that. just googled it and it sounds like it would work.
[14:10] <Cotowar> for what i need that is
[14:10] Action: Dominian nods
[14:10] <Dominian> fluxbox is nice
[14:10] <Dominian> little bit more "manual" editing to the desktop and how you want it to look.. but the themes that comes with it are nice.
[14:11] <Cotowar> alright. thanks. im going to look into the other two things listed there for me too, just to see what they are.
[14:11] <jkwood> It would be interesting to see what KDE 4 would look like on that setup.
[14:11] <Dominian> haha
[14:11] <Dominian> "crap"
[14:11] <dive> like a slide show
[14:11] <Cotowar> lol
[14:11] <Dominian> wait..
[14:12] <Dominian> jkwood: with all desktop effects enabled?
[14:12] <Cotowar> well, if its any comparison, i currently have XP performance edition on there, and the screen lags just moving the mouse.
[14:12] <jkwood> Sure, why not?
[14:12] <NetrixTardis> XP Performance Edition?
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[14:12] <NetrixTardis> wtf?
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[14:13] <Cotowar> its xp professional, without all the extra crap you will never need. search TPB for it. its rather nice.
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[14:13] <AzalynX> :|
[14:13] <jkwood> Ironically, I found KDE 4 to be extremely usable on 768 megs of ram.
[14:13] <straterra> Cotowar: AKA, illegal
[14:13] <Cotowar> yea.
[14:13] <kitche> and probably riddled with stuff
[14:14] <jkwood> kitche: You just described Windows in general.  Could you be more specific?
[14:14] <Cotowar> actually no, its basically just the OS. theres not even solitare :(
[14:14] <AzalynX> If you tried to make an XP "without all the extra crap", there would be nothing left.
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[14:14] <AzalynX> Except for notepad and paint.
[14:14] <dive> xp pro without extra crap = xp home? :)
[14:15] <Cotowar> i mean there are barely any pre-installed apps. all thats left is the HD and OS management stuff. you have to install all the drivers yourself and stuff like that.
[14:15] <Cotowar> dive: not quite. Professional has more networking capability and allows for user groups.
[14:15] <AzalynX> by "riddled with stuff" i think he meant spyware/viruses. although piratebay has "trusted" and "vip" torrents. maybe it's one of those.
[14:15] <Cotowar> yea it was.
[14:15] <dive> Cotowar, yeah I knew that :)
[14:16] <AzalynX> as for the legality, i suppose it's a grey area.
[14:16] <jkwood> Well, technically, Windows is sold as a license.
[14:16] <AzalynX> given that most companies that sell you a windows PC today don't even include a restore disc... i'd say you'd have a pretty good case in court.
[14:17] <AzalynX> jkwood: yeah, it is. hence the grey area. but even so the code on the disc *is* copyrighted too.
[14:17] <Cotowar> exactly. I can make as many copies of it as I want, just so long as I dont give it away to anyone.
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[14:17] <AzalynX> but i still think a person would have a good case in court.
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[14:17] <kitche> heydid Vista get those reinstall things removed anyone know?
[14:17] <AzalynX> given that the license is where the point is.
[14:17] <AzalynX> kitche: "reinstall things" ?
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[14:18] <kitche> AzalynX: the reinstall limits
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[14:18] <AzalynX> didn't xp have that too? you can only reinstall a certain amount of times before you have to call in.
[14:18] <AzalynX> the online mode stops working.
[14:18] <AzalynX> or something
[14:19] <kitche> AzalynX: yeah
[14:19] <kitche> but Vista was more extreme I believe then that
[14:19] <AzalynX> I think it's easier to just crack the activation personally. which is also completely legal if you have a valid license.
[14:19] <Cotowar> lol, yea XP did get that, but thats not quite how it works with XP
[14:19] <dive> they probably still do that with vista
[14:20] <dive> even after the complaints after the MS server went down and people couldn't login
[14:20] <Cotowar> with XP, the key only works so many times. if you get a version where the key has already been entered, you're all set. Vista is a bit different, both the key and the OS can only install so many times
[14:20] <AzalynX> I wonder what Microsoft is thinking to be honest, I mean the end result is that pirate windows is easier to install than valid windows. :|
[14:20] <dive> I would image the disk then
[14:20] <Cotowar> i personally liked the new years eve Zune update. They bricked over 2 million zunes with a bad firmware update
[14:21] <Cotowar> :)
[14:21] <dive> AzalynX, they are thinking 'profit'
[14:21] <Cotowar> dive: are they thinking in general?
[14:21] <AzalynX> my point is exactly that 'profit' doesn't factor into it.
[14:21] <Cotowar> lol
[14:22] <AzalynX> I mean most people buy OEM, so in that sense it makes no difference, but for people who actually buy retail, their install experience is more problematic where as pirates get a free ride.
[14:22] <dive> true
[14:22] <Cotowar> i think its funny that its actually easier for me to get a copy of XP than it is to get a linux .iso
[14:22] <Cotowar> well, faster
[14:22] <agentc0re|work> Cotowar: did you switch over to slackware yet?
[14:23] <AzalynX> if a technology is designed to counteract piracy, and instead pirates still have it easy and *legit* users get fucked, it doesn't exactly work. same issue with DRM in general
[14:23] <kitche> I think OEM Vista's are a bit different to the reinstall clause I believe not sure though
[14:23] <Cotowar> i got it, and started the install on a VM, but my HD isnt big enough. i have too many stolen goods and no space for the VM, thats why i asked about the P2
[14:23] <AzalynX> legit customers get fucked with drm, where as pirates get no trouble *whatsoever* with playing their music.
[14:24] <thrice`> it's a funny world
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[14:24] <Cotowar> Azalynx: you are right, its funny listening to people whine and complain about not being able to do stuff, whereas i do whatever the hell i want because i dont have any respect for copyright laws
[14:24] <Cotowar> funny story though, i respect the copyleft
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[14:25] <AzalynX> I used to think only patents were bad, and that copyrights were ok.
[14:25] <thrice`> it's often easier to download a digital copy of my DVD than to rip it
[14:26] <AzalynX> but then i debated with someone about it and they asked me "do you know what copyright covers?"
[14:26] <agentc0re|work> thrice`: That's very true.
[14:26] <AzalynX> i admitted that i didn't know specifically.
[14:26] <AzalynX> they told me "neither does anyone else in the world."
[14:26] <AzalynX> heh
[14:26] <Cotowar> i used to think that to sort of, but copyrighting has gotten out of control IMO
[14:26] <Cotowar> and patents have too. Sony has already patented the technology for the PS4, even though it doesnt exist yet. How can anyone do that?
[14:26] <agentc0re|work> Copyright is all about making sure that you still don't own what you just bought, or at least that is how i see it.
[14:27] <eviljames> Cotowar: You can patent a design.
[14:27] <AzalynX> And it's true. No one knows how far copyright extends, *what* it can be applied to... or how it is applied to differing things.
[14:27] <AzalynX> etc
[14:27] <agentc0re|work> They want to make their share plus some and then rape you when you're not looking and then charge you for it.
[14:27] <Cotowar> agentc0re|work: well not really, thats the license
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[14:27] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: Maybe in this day and age, but originally copyright was intended to protect the creator, NOT the "owner"
[14:27] <AzalynX> and despite all this confusion, because of disney and others, it apparently lasts close to 100 years or so.
[14:27] <agentc0re|work> eviljames: I agree.
[14:27] <Cotowar> yea
[14:28] <eviljames> AzalynX: WRT you mentioning DRM for music, and that legitimate users get tossed by it...
[14:28] <agentc0re|work> And I believe the creator should be protected.  I don't think anyone has a problem with that.
[14:28] <AzalynX> It should last 20 years at most. patents should last 5, or should be eliminated completely.
[14:28] <eviljames> AzalynX: http://xkcd.com/546/
[14:28] <Cotowar> DRM stops you from copying things you paid for, but pirates dont care about that
[14:28] <Cotowar> PS, I r a pirate.
[14:28] <thrice`> 5-year patents would destroy business
[14:28] <AzalynX> patents serve only to abuse the system, in the early days it was to encourage innovation, but that doesn't happen anymore even with hardware patents i think. although it's more visible with software.
[14:28] <straterra> If you don't like DRM..then don't buy DRM'd content.
[14:29] <straterra> Simple.
[14:29] <Cotowar> I dont, I steal it...
[14:29] <agentc0re|work> DRM is like a challenge to those that are smart enough to create ways around it.
[14:29] <Cotowar> lol
[14:29] <Cotowar> ecxactly
[14:29] <dive> way of the world
[14:29] <AzalynX> like look at h264 for example. there are technologies that are superior to it (like dirac codec), so what is the value of all that "patented technology" ?
[14:29] <eviljames> Cotowar: That's not something to be proud of, for example movies: a lot of people work really hard on those movies, and you essentially are telling them "Your work has precisely 0 value."
[14:30] <Cotowar> id buy it if i could do whatever i wanted with it
[14:30] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: DRM, fortunately, will always be easy to break.
[14:30] <AzalynX> my guess is that they are not innovating, and patenting the technology, rather, they are *looking* for technology that they *can* patent a-priori without looking at it's technical merits..
[14:30] <AzalynX> and then marketing that.
[14:30] <Cotowar> i do buy CD's occasionally
[14:30] <Cotowar> wasn't DRM created by Apple?
[14:30] <AzalynX> no.
[14:30] <eviljames> haha no
[14:30] <AzalynX> it's hard to trace it back.. depends on your definition.
[14:31] <Cotowar> because I read something about iTunes getting in trouble for allowing free transfer from unit to unit
[14:31] <AzalynX> even the playstation could be thought of as having a form of drm.
[14:31] <AzalynX> which i think is before the term 'drm' was coined.
[14:31] <thrice`> right, a world without any media at all would be awesome (not)
[14:31] <eviljames> thrice`: thank you!
[14:32] <Cotowar> thats why apple made itunes only work with a few ipods, then you need another version of itunes
[14:32] <eviljames> thrice`: At least someone seems to have a non-zealot thought
[14:32] <thrice`> lets all boycot the PS3, wii, xbox, etc. and play linux-based games instead
[14:32] <Cotowar> lol. okay
[14:32] <jkwood> FreedroidRPG!
[14:32] <thrice`> while it wont' be as enjoyable, at least stallman will rest well
[14:32] <AzalynX> it's not really about boycotting.
[14:32] <Cotowar> i am boycotting the xbox, but not because of the games.
[14:33] <Cotowar> and i just dont think the wii is that fun aside from super smash brothers
[14:33] <agentc0re|work> eviljames: You know since we live in a digital world, it would be a benifit to the music industry if they started treating it as such.  IE:  Create their mass store with all their music and keep track of who bought it so that you can download it in MP3 or lossless... etc.  and if you ever loss it or it gets stolen you can also get it again.  Thats been the only reason why i've ever downloaded music.  i know that it's already done that way sort of but
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[14:33] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: I posit back to you: iTunes music store, Amazon, and the whole metric shit-ton of other offerings in the same.
[14:33] <eviljames> Magnatune
[14:33] <eviljames> etc. etc.
[14:33] <agentc0re|work> Stopping piracy isn't going to happen by putting up a Wall, but opening the doors wider for those that buy their product.
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[14:34] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: Seriously, with music, that fight is over.  We won.  The only point of bringing it back up is to be self-righteous on the internet.
[14:34] <eviljames> (which, fortunately, is free like beer AND speach)
[14:34] <eviljames> I point you back to the xkcd posted earlier
[14:34] <thrice`> it's how patents work.  you come up with something unique, and the rights to it are yours
[14:34] <dive> I downloaded the radiohead album 'in rainbows' when they offered a download where you could pay whatever amount you liked for it. So far I've not read any feedback on how that experiment went.
[14:35] <thrice`> if this wasn't how business functioned, there would be no competition in the world
[14:35] <eviljames> dive: They made millions and millions of dollars on it
[14:35] <dive> eviljames, good then
[14:35] <AzalynX> which is why patents are bad. unique doesn't mean superior. so for example, the MPEG-LA can just 'decide' that H264 is the future, even if it has nothing superior.
[14:35] <eviljames> dive: Nine Inch Nails have since done the esame thing, made millions, and then released a new album saying "Don't worry about paying for this one, it's on me."
[14:35] <Cotowar> agentc0re|work, i agree with you that we need to make it all digital, the thing there though is you now have a target for electronic crime
[14:35] <eviljames> dive: NIN also released 400+GB of Hi-Def multiple-angle concert footage via bittorrent
[14:35] <dive> eviljames, but I've just ordered the album from amazon since I want all the fancy packaging :-)
[14:36] <thrice`> lumping ALL patents into what you see on media is a terrible example
[14:36] <AzalynX> They're feeding off of the monopoly they gained with MPEG2. which annoyingly enough is still patented despite how totally obsolete it is.
[14:36] <agentc0re|work> eviljames: Ya i know those sites do it and it's redundant for me to say so.  I was just using music as an example because it's easy to understand the relationship to it and how it's changed for the better.
[14:36] <thrice`> if I design some crappy idea and patent it, it's NOT guarenteed to make any money
[14:36] <eviljames> dive: That's part of why I'm saying the things I am.  The fight overall may not be over but for music, it's done.
[14:36] <AzalynX> it's ridiculous that patents on software can last 20 years when the technology is already obsolete in 1-2 years.
[14:36] <eviljames> dive: It turns out people can make money with an independent electronic distribution mechanism, AND make money with hard/printed copies.
[14:37] <agentc0re|work> I really enjoy how some blueray dvd's are now coming with a digital copy.  That's awesome.
[14:37] <thrice`> don't lump all patents into that catagory.  there are a ton of businesses where a 20 year patent isn't enough
[14:37] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: It's a sign of the times.  Wait with vigilence and you'll find that all hard media starts to disappear.
[14:37] <AzalynX> it's always enough.
[14:37] <dive> eviljames, yeah that's good then - hopefully more people will follow suit - and it just proves the point that we have been saying for a long time now
[14:37] <AzalynX> if a 5 year temporary monopoly isn't enough, then you're in the wrong business.
[14:37] <eviljames> AzalynX: I think you need to spend more time actually considering the issue at hand.
[14:38] <thrice`> AzalynX: you live a sheltered professional life.  what do you do for a living?
[14:38] <eviljames> dive: goign back a few lines, I order albums all the time for the same reason: I love when bands put effort into the packaging :D
[14:38] <AzalynX> That is a nice cop out. Blame someone's disagreement with you on their profession?
[14:38] <Cotowar> personally i think you should have to buy it if you are buying physical property. there is no such thing as "intellectual property" IMO
[14:38] <thrice`> also, do you know the time it takes to be awarded a patent after filing?
[14:38] <AzalynX> Can't you just make a proper counterargument, or provide a real world example?
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[14:39] <dive> eviljames, yeah same here, and for dvds too - since I like blade runner I got a fancy box set..
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[14:39] <eviljames> AzalynX: How about a company that invests a hundred million dollars into a product, something really useful, that might change the world.
[14:39] <Cotowar> the thing is though, that a patent doesnt stop you from making something similar
[14:40] <eviljames> AzalynX: But the patent runs out in 5 years, in which time they simply can't manufacture enough widgets to make up their hundred million bucks
[14:40] <dive> Cotowar, no cos that would kill any competition
[14:40] <eviljames> AzalynX: Then, afterwads a bunch of knock offs come out and kill their market.
[14:40] <Cotowar> eviljames: take a look at the Lenovo Ophone. its almost EXACTLY the same as the iphone
[14:40] <AzalynX> eviljames: I asked for real world examples, not some happy go lucky delusion that ignores all known situations.
[14:40] <eviljames> AzalynX: What would be the point of them investing ANY of that hundred million in the first place?
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[14:40] <thrice`> AzalynX: I agree that software is different.  patents typically take 4-5 years after *filing* to be awarded.  under your 1-2 year until obsolesence argument, who cares if they last 20 years?  by the time they are active, they are already obsolete
[14:40] <Cotowar> dive, it doesnt kill competition, people can still produce something that only works on a certain setup,
[14:40] <eviljames> AzalynX: If you aren't willing to performa a simple thought experiment, how can it be assumed that you've actually considered the issue at all?
[14:41] <AzalynX> The fact is that most companies do *not* use patents to innovate, they use it to *stifle* innovation and progress.
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[14:41] <dive> Cotowar, I think it depends how you patent it
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[14:41] <eviljames> AzalynX: That's an outrageous lie.  The companies you don't like, and read about, do that perhaps.
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[14:41] <thrice`> AzalynX: not even close.  when I design something, my company uses patents to protect the design and make money.  it's *business*
[14:41] <eviljames> thrice`: ++
[14:41] <Cotowar> i think patents are good, they mean i cant copy your idea exactly, and steal your profit through better marketing or whatever.
[14:41] <AzalynX> eviljames: Your thought experiment is without a point, to assume that one positive example undos the mountains of abuse of the system is ridiculous.
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[14:42] <eviljames> Sure thing, kid.
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[14:42] <thrice`> if everyone used patents only to piss others off, businesses would die in a heart beat.
[14:42] <straterra> I kinda wish there was a way to run an X app in screen
[14:42] <straterra> Like..a FF screen
[14:42] <AzalynX> It's not about pissing others off... :|
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[14:42] <thrice`> not only are patents extremely difficult to get, they are expensive as hell
[14:43] <eviljames> straterra: provided that you export the display, probably, but I don't know how detach/reattach would work
[14:43] <agentc0re|work> I think you both have very valid points.  I think it's a system of abuse to those who can find the loop holes and those wanting to do honest business.
[14:43] <Cotowar> not really, when you are a large company
[14:43] <straterra> eviljames: thats my problem
[14:43] <Cotowar> companies like Dell shove their patents through in weeks, they pay for it, but its not that expensive to them
[14:43] <eviljames> straterra: well afaik the X protocol doesn't support that.
[14:43] <dive> that's why they hire very expensive lawyers to work out the wording in patents?
[14:44] <thrice`> Cotowar: weeks?  no chance
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[14:44] <AzalynX> copyright is one thing, but patents says that not only is the implementation of an idea owned, but that even the idea *itself* as a very concept is owned.
[14:44] <thrice`> 2 years would be really quick
[14:44] <eviljames> More like "Shove their patents through in a half-decade long gruelling process"
[14:44] <dive> btw: has anyone tried svgalib out in -curent yet now that's it been compiled without the module dep?
[14:44] <Cotowar> intel doesn't wait around to get patents on their processors
[14:44] <Dominian> thats why you see a lot of products with "patent pending" on them
[14:44] <AzalynX> In the USA it applies to algorithms too, *math* can be owned. i think that is just ridiculous.
[14:44] <straterra> I don't..
[14:44] <agentc0re|work> This might be a bad example but we had found better ways to fuel our cars years ago but the oil company's out bought the patents and held them.  Look at what's happened because of that.  It's caused a whole shit load of problems for the whole world because some assholes got greedy.
[14:45] <dive> agentc0re|work, might be down to opec too
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[14:45] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: That's a great supporting example of AzalynX's statements, however is grossly atypical of the market at large
[14:45] <Cotowar> they pay extra to get that crap filed and processed, so that other comapnies cant come around and copy it and produce it cheaper.
[14:45] <eviljames> And, just like the rest of AzalynX's statements ignores reality entirely.
[14:46] <Cotowar> patenting math is ridiculous, i agree. anything that does not physically exist should not be able to be protected.
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[14:46] <eviljames> AzalynX: Please name a patented algorithm.
[14:46] <AzalynX> Reality is relative to everyone. Depending on what you've been taught growing up. I am a skeptic.
[14:46] <jkwood> urmom is a patented algorithm.
[14:46] <AzalynX> eviljames: many video codecs have them.
[14:46] <eviljames> AzalynX: Better, as long as we're talking about *math* being owned, please name a patented formula or number.
[14:47] <Cotowar> no one is going to buy a knock off of Aerosmith, because it wouldnt be as good. you have the quality aspect there protecting the digital product
[14:47] <Cotowar> i want the number 0
[14:47] <eviljames> AzalynX: touche, you win that round :D
[14:47] <AzalynX> oh, another thing is that apparently even genes are being patented now. it's getting pretty funny.
[14:47] <dive> Pi inc
[14:47] <eviljames> AzalynX: mpeg2 certainly is patented, however it's not the only game in town.
[14:47] <Cotowar> i want the blue gene
[14:47] <eviljames> AzalynX: the process of compressing video isn't patented, THIS process of compressing video is.
[14:47] <Cotowar> \no one caught my pun... :(
[14:48] <AzalynX> eviljames: the only question you have to ask is "would innovation exist without patents, and would it be greater than the alleged innovation we see today?"
[14:48] <AzalynX> Personally, I think the answer is yes.
[14:48] <Cotowar> eviljames: thats the problem though, what if i could do something that made it a little better, i can't because its copyrighted. i have to do everything from scratch in an independent way
[14:49] <eviljames> Cotowar: copyrighted or patented?
[14:49] <Cotowar> patented*
[14:49] <Cotowar> my bad. there are like 3 conversations going on here, and i cant type fast enough :(
[14:49] <Cotowar> and my mind is getting confused
[14:49] <eviljames> AzalynX: There are many, many more questions than that worth considering.  How about "Will companies hire inventors to innovate new things?"
[14:50] <AzalynX> without patents, maybe they'll have to rely on trade secrets, which i think is a better model.
[14:50] <Cotowar> sure they will.
[14:50] <eviljames> ?!
[14:50] <eviljames> WHAT?
[14:50] <eviljames> Trade Secrets is a better model?  That way we don't share any of the information we gain with the world around us?
[14:50] <dive> like MS and their trade secrets?
[14:50] <eviljames> dive: Embrace and extend dude
[14:50] <Cotowar> eviljames: if you make something first, you still have the edge, and if your idea isnt protected, you better get a move on making it better than the next guy before he steals it
[14:51] <Cotowar> dive: :)
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[14:51] <eviljames> Cotowar: If your idea can't be protected, why bother in the first place?  Let some other chump do the hard work of inventing it, I'll just improve on it after the fact.
[14:51] <AzalynX> I think that trade secrets are discovered sooner than patents expire in practice. at least *today*
[14:51] <Cotowar> MS is the bestest company ever! they made my computer 60% more secure with Windows Vista
[14:51] <AzalynX> reverse-engineering is pretty powerful these days.
[14:51] <dive> I will remember that next time I have to run wordviewer.exe in wine just to see comments in a word doc that's been sent me
[14:52] <dive> or have to check that my files can be read by dows users
[14:52] <Cotowar> because I can make something, and sell it, then make an improvement so when you start copying me, i'll already have a better product
[14:52] <AzalynX> there will still be a gap between when a product is made, and when that product is copied/cloned. and in today's fast-moving world, if you can't make a product succeed in that short time, perhaps you're just not good at business.
[14:52] <Cotowar> you will have a temporary slow down in innovation as companies stockpile ideas, but then it will explode
[14:53] <eviljames> AzalynX: That's "patently" false!
[14:53] <Cotowar> exactly, thats what im saying
[14:53] <Cotowar> that gap is where you get your money
[14:53] <AzalynX> hey, it's just a thought experiment. ;)
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[14:53] <eviljames> AzalynX: iPhone knock-offs were available in China before the iPhone was available in America.
[14:53] <AzalynX> good.
[14:53] <AzalynX> fantastic.
[14:53] <eviljames> AzalynX: With that in hand, how could Apple ever have recouped the significant investment to the iphone?
[14:54] <AzalynX> what exactly does the iphone have that is worth patenting?
[14:54] <Cotowar> AzalynX: i understand what you are saying. you no longer have long running products, you have one offs. meaning faster product development, faster reviews, and companies are forced to make quality product or no one will buy from them
[14:54] <Cotowar> the apple logo
[14:54] <Cotowar> it makes me hungry :P
[14:54] <AzalynX> Cotowar: great point.
[14:54] <AzalynX> iphone knock-offs didn't affect apple's business.
[14:54] <eviljames> Cotowar: People won't bother making quality products, because consumers are dumb and just buy cheap knock-offs.
[14:54] <AzalynX> that is another thing, modern business isn't about innovation.
[14:55] <AzalynX> it's about marketing.
[14:55] <eviljames> AzalynX: That's because the iPhone was protected in their target market, goof.
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[14:55] <eviljames> :D
[14:55] <AzalynX> it's *all* in the marketing.
[14:55] <acidchild> eviljames: thats a little generlising.
[14:55] <Cotowar> i mean if company A makes a widget and it sucks, no one will buy the next product that company A produces
[14:55] <agentc0re|work> Cotowar: Really?  Are you sure about that?
[14:55] <eviljames> acidchild: True, it is.  But if American consumers (the super-consumer as it were) had been interested in buying quality goods, they wouldn't have moved all the manufacturing overseas.
[14:55] <mooglenorph> Hello. I have an interesting choice: take my school's OS course, or work through an Andrew S. Tanenbaum book (implement minux). What would I have to do to set up an environment where I could implement minux in a lisp, preferebly common lisp?
[14:55] <eviljames> acidchild: That is still generalizing a lot..
[14:55] <mooglenorph> wrong channel.
[14:55] <agentc0re|work> Cotowar: I think you're forgetting about the mass of sheeple that we have everywhere.
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[14:55] <acidchild> eviljames: indeed
[14:56] <acidchild> i consider a product i make to me a sign of my craftmanship
[14:56] <acidchild> and respect and reputation is important
[14:56] <acidchild> but if i was selling to morons going in to these chain-store pc shops, it would probly be a peice of crap product.
[14:57] <acidchild> depends on who your selling too.
[14:57] <Cotowar> true, but eventually when enough people have problems with a product, and the knock offs are working well, people stop buying the original
[14:57] <Cotowar> look at the automobile
[14:57] <Cotowar> how many knock offs are there in THAT industry
[14:57] <Cotowar> inifinity G35, nissan 350Z, exact same car
[14:57] <acidchild> and look how dead the industry is :P
[14:58] <eviljames> acidchild: Agreed.  But the people who buy computers from me aren't looking for a $400 off-the-shelf machine (for example).  They are searching for that upper echelon of quality.  This, by experience, cannot be said to be the norm, though.
[14:58] <elderK> Anyone had much luck building GARNOME or something on Slackware 12_@
[14:58] <elderK> er, 12_2
[14:58] <elderK> ?
[14:58] <elderK> or even using GSB or DLG?
[14:58] <eviljames> acidchild: Were your and my experiences in retailing products the norm, Wal-Mart wouldn't exist.
[14:58] <acidchild> wal-mart is great for toilet brushs
[14:58] <acidchild> ;D
[14:58] <acidchild> and scrubby pads
[14:58] <Dominian> wal-mart. hehe
[14:58] <Cotowar> acidchild: i sell those at dollar general
[14:58] <AzalynX> my point is that "upper echelon of quality" doesn't go hand in hand with patented works.
[14:58] <Cotowar> :)
[14:59] <Cotowar> exactly
[14:59] <AzalynX> in fact, most of the time it doesnt.
[14:59] <Cotowar> if you make the industry cutthroat, it has to, or your company wont survive
[14:59] <AzalynX> especially in software.
[14:59] <acidchild> i got told to look for NUANs to make sure i don't pick a company name that someone else has
[14:59] <eviljames> Man, making absolute statements like that "most of the time it doesn't" you probably want to have some stats to back that up
[14:59] <AzalynX> I cannot think of a single software technology today that is really truly original.
[14:59] <eviljames> and not just made up ones.
[14:59] <acidchild> this blows, i'm broke... as fuck atm and i have all this legal crap to setup to even make the money
[14:59] <thrice`> is the software market really that competitive?
[14:59] <acidchild> thrice`: hell yarh
[15:00] <Dominian> acidchild: what.. how are you broke?
[15:00] <Cotowar> thrice: yea it is
[15:00] <acidchild> Dominian: well i have enough to live on, but sevenl doesn't exaclly give me saving space.
[15:00] <eviljames> AzalynX: I think we can agree that the higher-quality is not necessarily indicative of a patented work
[15:00] <dive> Cotowar, as for the car industry you have to look at parts too - if it wasn't for pattern parts I couldn't afford to get mine repair
[15:00] <acidchild> and i can't get $ for my new job without setting up a company name and bank account
[15:00] <Dominian> atrue
[15:00] <eviljames> AzalynX: But the two are neither inclusive nor exclusive, so it's largely irrelevant I think.
[15:01] <acidchild> Dominian: its ghey
[15:01] Action: Dominian nosd
[15:01] <Dominian> acidchild: the new job wil lmake a difference..
[15:01] <acidchild> yeah for sure
[15:01] <Cotowar> true, but industry would expand, and you would get niches where companies just improve past technologies
[15:01] <AzalynX> eviljames: I will admit that it is anecdotal (so is your side though), but what i've noticed is that every *SINGLE* patent I have ever *seen* or heard about, or read about...
[15:01] <acidchild> a friend is going to give me a few lessons and awnser questions for me
[15:01] <AzalynX> Every single patent case I have ever SEEN over the past several years..
[15:01] <acidchild> should be useful and free
[15:01] <eviljames> AzalynX: I thought I disclaimed that everything I said was anecdotal earlier, if not I'd like to do so now. :D
[15:01] <AzalynX> they have *all* involved bullshit patents.
[15:01] <Cotowar> if you have one off cars, and constant innovation, you get a lot of people stuck with old products because they cant afford the bleeding edge forever
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[15:02] <Cotowar> by one off, i mean make a huge batch, release it, then move on
[15:02] <AzalynX> I mean if it was about innovation, you'd expect to see at least a *few* legit cases.
[15:02] <eviljames> AzalynX: 90% of the time, the news is good.  100% of the time, the reported news is negative.  Doesn't mean the world is really going to hell, though.
[15:02] <AzalynX> just one out of 1000 would be enough to convince me that there are some good patents.
[15:02] <AzalynX> just one.
[15:02] <eviljames> Stop reading the news and patent something, then.
[15:02] <AzalynX> but i don't even get that.
[15:03] <eviljames> Then you would know that for certain, there is at least one.
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[15:03] <Cotowar> i like the snuggie :)
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[15:03] <AzalynX> I wouldn't, because despite the fact that I have had some nice ideas, I don't consider any of them to be any more innovative than the patents I criticize all the time.
[15:03] <AzalynX> so it would be hypocritical for me to patent such things.
[15:04] <eviljames> And probably unpatent-able due to prior art
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[15:04] <Cotowar> crap, i was going to go look for a job today
[15:04] <Cotowar> peace out guys
[15:04] <eviljames> hrm.
[15:04] <AzalynX> which is exactly my point. we're at a point where at least for software, everything has prior art.
[15:04] <Cotowar> not true
[15:04] <eviljames> Look for job.. argue on internet... I can see how that would be a hard choice.
[15:04] <Cotowar> AI is about the only field left
[15:04] <Cotowar> internet
[15:05] <eviljames> Cotowar: Sweet, I can patent intelligence?
[15:05] Action: eviljames starts filing
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[15:05] <Cotowar> you can patent your version of AI
[15:05] <AzalynX> the human brain is arguably prior art. ;)
[15:05] <AzalynX> although it's not artificial..
[15:05] <Cotowar> who says it has to reason like a person does?
[15:05] <eviljames> obviously it's artificial.  intelligent design, guys.  use the brain that ghod gave you
[15:05] <AzalynX> :|
[15:05] <dive> eviljames, if you patent intelligence it wouldn't affect me lol ;-)
[15:06] <AzalynX> eviljames: jkwood is gonna scold you again.
[15:06] <AzalynX> mwehehe
[15:06] <Cotowar> you need to get that patent, and charge a royalty for it
[15:06] <Cotowar> :)
[15:06] <Cotowar> richest man alive
[15:06] <eviljames> AzalynX: I think jkwood's a saint, so hopefully not.
[15:06] <Cotowar> every time some one has a thought, you can make money
[15:06] <Cotowar> okay but for real, i need to go get a job..
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[15:07] <AzalynX> the internet i think is what happens when you tell patents to screw off. i mean that had to be one of the greatest innovations in history. and totally open.
[15:07] <dive> good luck
[15:07] Action: Cotowar waves good bye, and asks for everyone to wish him luck.
[15:07] <eviljames> Cotowar: have fun, man.  lots of luck.
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[15:07] <firebird619> Cotowar: Good Luck.
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[15:07] <dive> AzalynX, yes but there is a sector trying to restrict that openness
[15:07] <dive> with closed networks etc
[15:07] <AzalynX> yeah, i've noticed.
[15:08] <AzalynX> we need to fight back with global encrypted darknets.
[15:08] <AzalynX> like freenet. :)
[15:08] <AzalynX> or something like it.
[15:08] <AzalynX> just put the entire internet on top of that shit.
[15:08] <eviljames> AzalynX: You're not entirely sure of what you speak, I think.
[15:08] <eviljames> There are LOTS of patents pertaining to the internet.
[15:08] <dive> I expect if the media giants actually succeded in some of their plans, then open networks would spring up
[15:09] <AzalynX> there's another strange thing i've seen recently.. blacklisting countries from accessing content. that is pretty lame.
[15:09] <eviljames> AzalynX: That's a marketing thing.  Why would american advertisers pay to advertise to Estonian haxx0rs?
[15:09] <dive> AzalynX, like 'the great firewall of china'?
[15:09] <AzalynX> dive: when x is outlawed, only outlaws will use x ?
[15:10] <dive> there was a chinese guy in here the other night
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[15:10] <Camarade_Tux> hey, happy St Patrick ! :p
[15:10] <AzalynX> dive: more like websites using geographic ip databases to know where someone is, and block content. like an american site wanting it's content to only be viewed by americans.
[15:10] <dive> when breathing is outlawed, out outlaws will live
[15:10] <eviljames> Camarade_Tux: Same to you!  Green beer flowing like water yet?
[15:10] <dive> ah right
[15:10] <AzalynX> so outside ip's get blocked from viewing it.
[15:10] <AzalynX> common on video sites.
[15:11] <dive> yeah I think bbc.co.uk tried doing something like that
[15:11] <AzalynX> usually happens with content from big players like fox or nbc.
[15:11] <Camarade_Tux> eviljames, no, no beer today, I had some at 1am and was definitely too tired
[15:11] <dive> with iPlayer
[15:11] <Camarade_Tux> and since I only slept like 5 hours...
[15:12] <Camarade_Tux> but I've done an awful lot today (and did well each time), I'm sure it's the St Patrick Effect :p
[15:13] <dive> talking of which:
[15:13] <dive> Today is March 17 The Feast of the Blessed Leprechaun
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[15:14] <dive> guinness all round with leprechauns on toast
[15:15] <eviljames> AzalynX: I do agree with many of your ideas, btw.  At least some portion of our debate was me playing devil's advocate
[15:15] <eviljames> AzalynX: I just don't think we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
[15:16] <AzalynX> let me ask you, what do you think the world will be like in 2200 assuming we survive?
[15:16] <agentc0re|work> eviljames: Maybe just throw the baby out and keep the bathwater then? ;)
[15:16] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: Is that your way of inviting me to make a new baby with you?
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[15:16] <AzalynX> as i kept insisting in our last discussion, no one can predict the future, but it is interesting to think about.
[15:17] Action: dive is throwing himself out to go buy milk
[15:17] <eviljames> AzalynX: My honest opinion is pretty pessimistic, overall.
[15:17] <straterra> I can predict the future.
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[15:17] <eviljames> AzalynX: I don't think that the surface of the earth is going to be very inhabitable, we'll either be in Jetsons style skylofts or 12 Monkeys style underground.
[15:18] <AzalynX> By the way, I believe there are pessimists, and optimists, and pragmatists in the world, but I don't believe in the existence of 'realists'.
[15:18] <AzalynX> I think people who call themselves realists are trying to take a holier than thou position.
[15:18] <agentc0re|work> I don't think we'll advance as a civilization until we're all able to work under one government, and live in a socialist type world.  If we can't get a long and are always fighting over something, usually money then how will we ever advance past our place on earth?
[15:19] <AzalynX> To claim their position is more valid regardless of any factors. Usually their point of views will mirror a view that the current status quo seen in society will continue.
[15:20] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: You're so right it hurts.
[15:20] <AzalynX> Throughout history though, there has been visible change I think.
[15:20] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: I think very much the same, and we're both in good copmany.
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[15:20] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: http://www.monthlyreview.org/598einstein.php
[15:20] <agentc0re|work> eviljames: Heh, i read parts of that the other day.
[15:21] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: Did I paste it to you then, too?  I've been spamming this all over the place as a way of saying 'I'm right, and Einstein says so!' ;)
[15:21] <AzalynX> Anyways, my view of the future, is that at some point in the future, the economy will crash and burn worldwide. Many factors will lead to it, but the two main factors will be debt, and commoditization.
[15:22] <agentc0re|work> You know i can understand the fear of a NWO type Gov. if it was just one, but I don't think we as people would allow for something like that.  If it happened, the world would end imo.  Thats why if we did go to one gov. it would turn to a Socialist world.  We'd turn into a type 1 civilization.  :D
[15:22] <agentc0re|work> eviljames: No, googling yesterday and i found it.
[15:22] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: ahh, good times :D
[15:22] <AzalynX> debt because our currency is backed by it, money is created through loans, people have to pay back both principal and interest on their loan, but the total money in society consists only of principal.
[15:22] <agentc0re|work> eviljames: Heh.  Well i am glad that i'm not the only one who sees the bigger picture in that sense.
[15:22] <agentc0re|work> I fear that whenever i mention Socialism that i'm going to get flamed hardcore.
[15:22] <AzalynX> each generation gets into more debt to pay off the previous generation's debt. this cannot go on forever. it will crash eventually.
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[15:23] <AzalynX> not to mention that the gap between available money and debt continues to grow too.
[15:23] <eviljames> AzalynX: You do realize that the interest on the 'loans' of the federal reserve go into the treasury as tax receipts, right?
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[15:23] <eviljames> maybe tax receipts is the wrong verbiage
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[15:24] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: There's as much problem with Socialism as there is with Capitalism.
[15:24] <AzalynX> all i'm saying is there is always more actual money in society than the total debt, hence, the money to pay off that debt does not even exist.
[15:24] <AzalynX> nor does it exist at any given time.
[15:24] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: Though, in this regard, I think the Chinese aren't doing a terrible thing when they execute government workers for corruption.
[15:24] <AzalynX> and nor *can* it ever exist if the system is expected to function.
[15:25] <nooper> augh, spammers found my unadvertised domain
[15:25] <AzalynX> because new debt pays old debt. it's a vicious and endless cycle. the only possible outcome is failure.
[15:25] <eviljames> nooper: horrible.
[15:26] <agentc0re|work> eviljames: I don't think a full blown out Socialist society would work.  It would need to be a mix, mostly Socialism then some Democracy and a bit of dictatorship.
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[15:27] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: So.. Canada, then?
[15:27] <agentc0re|work> Heh.
[15:27] <agentc0re|work> You know they are doing pretty well.
[15:27] <AzalynX> that will be the first cause of society's downfall. the second, i expect will be commoditization. patents are managing to slow that down, but not effectively. and in the software industry, a 'glitch' in our system occurred at some point in the late 70s and early 80s that will forever change technology. heh
[15:27] <AzalynX> can you guess what that glitch was?
[15:27] <agentc0re|work> what?
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[15:27] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: As a Canadian, I know. :D
[15:28] <AzalynX> I'm Canadian too. hehe
[15:28] <AzalynX> We should get together and talk about our igloos sometime, eh?
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[15:29] <slava_dp> Canada is nice. i've been to Canada about 8 years ago :)
[15:29] <agentc0re|work> ya, it's aboot time you guys go and do that okeh.
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[15:29] <AzalynX> It's changed since then slava_dp, we have electricity now.
[15:30] <slava_dp> lmao
[15:30] <agentc0re|work> LOL
[15:30] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: "aboot" is really just the east coast.  If you're going to make fun of Canada, at least make fun of the way we say the letter R.
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[15:30] <agentc0re|work> eviljames: Wow, i just totally /failed and then got pwned didn't I? ;)
[15:30] <eviljames> For examples of this, watch curling.  "HAARRRDD hurry!"
[15:31] <AzalynX> if you americans want a laugh, you should check out rick mercer on youtube.
[15:31] <AzalynX> he's sort of like our jon stewart.
[15:31] <agentc0re|work> You Americans?  Whats that supposed to mean? :P
[15:31] <eviljames> Yea, and he really over-emphasizes that letter R thing :D
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[15:33] <AzalynX> agentc0re: inbred redneck shotgun-totting uneducated hicks i guess? or whatever stereotype you guys are covered by.
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[15:33] <AzalynX> http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rick+mercer
[15:33] <eviljames> AzalynX: maybe agentc0re|work is Irish or something?
[15:34] <AzalynX> maybe.
[15:34] <agentc0re|work> AzalynX: lol.
[15:34] <AzalynX> I like how our politicians actually show up on the mercer report and play along with his skits.
[15:35] <AzalynX> Oh, and Harper showed up on corner gas.
[15:35] <agentc0re|work> eviljames: No, i live in the us.  My family is Scottish descendants but it's 3 generations back so really i'm more of a mutt than anything like most everyone else.
[15:35] <AzalynX> i rofl'd when i saw him.
[15:35] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: I'm about as Canadian as can be, my family has been here for many many generations :D
[15:36] <AzalynX> my family is fucked up.
[15:36] <AzalynX> my mother is canadian, here for i have no clue how many generations.. maybe a few..
[15:37] <AzalynX> my father is from greece, born and raised there. moved to canada when he was 18 i think, then moved to new york city later...
[15:37] <AzalynX> i was born there.
[15:37] <AzalynX> then they moved back to canada when i was 3 or 4.
[15:38] <agentc0re|work> Smart move on their part.
[15:38] <AzalynX> As a result of this, I can go pretty much anywhere in the fucking world, how neat is that? heh.
[15:38] <AzalynX> and stay there i mean.
[15:38] <agentc0re|work> So are you technically a us citizen?
[15:38] <AzalynX> yeah. i voted for kerry too.
[15:38] <AzalynX> absentee ballot.
[15:38] <agentc0re|work> hahah
[15:39] <agentc0re|work> So you're not technically a Canadian citizen then, right?
[15:39] <AzalynX> obama was too perfect so i didn't vote on him. i suspect he's an alien from tau ceti.
[15:39] <AzalynX> err, for. not on.
[15:39] <eviljames> Gets to be an American AND take advantage of our fantastic medicine?
[15:39] <eviljames> Jeez, wtf.
[15:39] <agentc0re|work> Because i was under the impression if you wanted to be an actual citizen of a country you have to give up your current to join theirs.
[15:39] <AzalynX> yes i am a canadian citizen.
[15:40] <AzalynX> i've lived here since i was 3 or some shit.
[15:40] <AzalynX> agentc0re: dual-citizenship.
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[15:40] <agentc0re|work> I didn't know that existed.
[15:40] <AzalynX> it's nice. i'm sure it would come in handy for business too...
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[15:41] <AzalynX> if i make my euro papers (in greece or a greek embassy), i would be able to do it all.
[15:41] <AzalynX> heh
[15:41] <agentc0re|work> I've thought of moving to England but when I found out that I would have to give up my Citizenship, it wasn't really an option anymore.
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[15:42] <AzalynX> you can have a residence somewhere without having to live there though, right?
[15:43] <AzalynX> i mean rich people sometimes have homes all over the world :|
[15:43] <AzalynX> and can stay at a particular one as long as they want i'd think.
[15:44] <AzalynX> anyways, the 'glitch' in our status quo society i mentioned earlier, was the birth of "free software".
[15:45] <AzalynX> I have a feeling that in a post-commoditization world, after the world economy has crashed, people might look to those ideas for the foundation of a future society.
[15:45] <eviljames> I think I'm going to get euro citizenship as well.
[15:46] <AzalynX> but as i said, no one can predict the future. it's all just speculation.
[15:46] <AzalynX> eviljames: you want to be a cool cat like me, eh? ;)
[15:46] <eviljames> Sortof.  My gf is a fun little mix.  her mom is native, her dad is from Belfast
[15:46] <eviljames> So she gets grandfathered into European citizenship (norther ireland)
[15:47] <eviljames> and also is hilariously fun to drink with :D
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[15:48] <AzalynX> one thing i've noticed is that the internet has become a really powerful force. think of groups like anonymous.
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[15:49] <AzalynX> kind of have to wonder if that will continue, and maybe spread to the mainstream eventually.
[15:49] <eviljames> AzalynX: I think anonymous is a waste of effort, really.
[15:50] <eviljames> but
[15:50] <eviljames> the internet is certainly a transformative technology.
[15:50] <AzalynX> the production and distribution of lulz is never wasteful.
[15:50] <eviljames> AzalynX: That's why we have to stand with Prof. Geist and fight for neutrality, and the decimation of the idiotic oligopoly in Canada.
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[15:51] <AzalynX> people have always assumed and said of various subjects that "people just don't care", i think that rather.. people care, but that daily life is too involving, everyone has their own problems, no one can fight the system.
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[15:51] <AzalynX> but the internet is a tool that makes fighting the MAN 'user friendly'
[15:52] <AzalynX> which is just really amazing. heh
[15:52] <dive> long live that
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[15:52] <AzalynX> for example, just one small thing. if i see an infomercial on tv
[15:52] <AzalynX> i can google search, and quickly see if it's bullshit.
[15:52] <AzalynX> even find youtube videos debunking their claims.
[15:52] <AzalynX> etc.
[15:53] <AzalynX> it's a new world.
[15:53] <AzalynX> it's never been this easy to stamp out bullshit.
[15:53] <dTd> amen brotha
[15:53] <AzalynX> could it be... i mean.. is it possible? could it be that the internet... really *is* SERIOUS BUSINESS after all!? :O
[15:54] <dive> lol
[15:54] <eviljames> AzalynX: Let me guess, white male aged 20 - 25 ?
[15:54] <hitest> lol
[15:55] <AzalynX> I mean even internet arguments serve a purpose, i can read  void main() vs int main()  flamewars from 1997 on usenet, and enjoy the lulz they offer.
[15:55] <eviljames> int main ()
[15:55] <AzalynX> PREACH IT.
[15:56] <AzalynX> yes, i'm white. as for my gender... well, that is complicated. :|
[15:57] <hitest> it is?
[15:57] <AzalynX> yeah.
[15:57] <hitest> okay
[15:57] <eviljames> I was more considering the age, but I wanted to pin you into a specific demographic.
[15:57] <AzalynX> shame on you.
[15:57] <eviljames> heh
[15:57] <dive> it's inpolite to ask the age of persons with unspecific gender
[15:58] <AzalynX> yeah, seriously.
[15:58] <AzalynX> i'm offended and whatever.
[15:58] <AzalynX> and shit, you know.
[15:58] <eviljames> I probably could've left out the 'white male' part entirely, but I had been reading some anecdotal survey that was put to me
[15:58] <eviljames> So, AzalynX do you fit the age bracket?
[15:59] <AzalynX> you white males in your early/mid twenties and your surveys. you're ALL THE SAME.
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[15:59] <eviljames> haha
[15:59] <eviljames> AzalynX: It's more to show that you understand the internet on a different level than (some of) your older counterparts.
[15:59] <eviljames> with hitest being a notable exception ;)
[15:59] <hitest> :)
[16:00] <alienBOB> Heya fred - yes, someone pointed me to that post, and I had already applied it to http://www.slackware.com/~alien/slackbuilds/tvtime/build/tvtime.SlackBuild (somewhat beautified) although I did not upload a package built with that script (yet)
[16:00] <AzalynX> my attitude is the same as when i was 17. only i have more knowledge and therefore can cross-reference it better to arrive at more correct conclusions than my far more ignorant 17 year old self.
[16:00] <eviljames> I wish I was as smart as I was at 17.  I knew EVERYTHING.
[16:00] <AzalynX> but my general *feelings* and sense of justice, etc, havent changed.
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[16:01] <AzalynX> oh, well, i don't know if i understand the internet because of my age.
[16:02] <AzalynX> i think it's more because of what i've seen on it.
[16:02] <AzalynX> as evidence.
[16:02] <fred> alienBOB: cool, thanks
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[16:03] <AzalynX> i mean look, if you told me in 1998-1999 that there was a loose confederation of hackers co-operating together, without payment, for the greater good of creating software and distributing it to all for free (freedom and beer).
[16:04] <AzalynX> I would have smacked you and called you a liar.
[16:04] <dive> there is as much BS on the net as anywhere else - the difference is that there is also a lot of truth on it that you just don't find browsing your media-controlled TV
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[16:04] <vncsnvs> oi
[16:04] <dive> at least not in this coutry - ymmv
[16:04] <AzalynX> And would think that to be about as likely as pixies and newage cures for cancer like holding quartz stones in your hands.
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[16:05] <eviljames> dive: there's 10x more BS on the internet than on TV
[16:05] <hitest> gtg, bbl folks:)
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[16:06] <eviljames> dive: TV filters it for you, but it's easy easy to find lots of hilariously bad crud calling itself 'news'.
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[16:06] <dive> eviljames, that doesn't make my previous statement invalid
[16:06] <eviljames> dive: eg: http://www.infowars.com
[16:06] <AzalynX> In the end, seeing is believing.
[16:06] <eviljames> dive: No, I'm agreeing with you.  Just that at least with the TV news you already know it's fake.
[16:06] <dive> yeah
[16:07] <eviljames> Then again, we have the CBC, so you can get semi-real news here.
[16:07] <dive> call me a pessimist but I agree with the 'seeing is believing' view
[16:07] <dive> and even then might not :>
[16:07] <eviljames> and in America Jim Lehrer is supposed to do a good job of the same.
[16:07] <AzalynX> how is that pessimistic? heh
[16:08] <dive> sceptical probably a better description
[16:08] <dive> or both
[16:09] <AzalynX> in any case, seeing opensource at work, and seeing it's *growth*, teaches me that things people said were impossible decades ago, are in fact possible. and if it wasn't for seeing that such things are possible, i would have a very pessimistic view of the future indeed.
[16:09] <eviljames> I'd say it is very pessimistic.  What happened to guys like Edward R Murrow?
[16:09] <AzalynX> instead i think of it in a darwinian sense, good technology and good ideas will survive, or we wont.
[16:10] <dTd> thats optimistic
[16:10] <dive> some people say ' don't protest at war, preach for love' but I leave that to the optimists
[16:10] <eviljames> There are strong forces at work that are trying to ensure that anything associated with the word "darwin" doesn't succeed.
[16:10] <eviljames> Including markets.
[16:10] <AzalynX> well, dTd, that's your opinion. i view it as an extension of darwinism.
[16:10] <pi31415> azalynx: i see too many regressions in open source to be optimistic
[16:10] <AzalynX> or technological darwinism.
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[16:11] <AzalynX> evolution works for genetics, i think it works in terms of technology too.
[16:11] <AzalynX> and science in general.
[16:11] <dTd> eviljames: I don't think darwinism can be stopped without repression
[16:11] <AzalynX> our total knowledge actually.
[16:11] <pi31415> I didn't know evolution worked for things that did not reproduce
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[16:12] <AzalynX> pi31415: even richard dawkins has made the parallel.
[16:12] <eviljames> dTd: please see: American Government under GW Bush, Canadian government now, Kansas Schoolboard, Texas schoolboard, etc. etc.
[16:12] <eviljames> dTd: The repression is actively happening now.
[16:12] <dTd> eviljames: agreed
[16:12] <dTd> eviljames: but how far can it go, how far will people let it
[16:12] <eviljames> The minister of Science in Canada just recently refused to assert that evolution is factual.
[16:12] <beterraba> Hello. What file contains the start up programs? Thanks
[16:13] <beterraba> (I use KDE)
[16:13] <AzalynX> he uses this guy that designs windmills as an example. the guy makes each windmill with a random 'mutation' and tests it in a wind tunnel or some shit like that..
[16:13] <eviljames> beterraba: inittab / rc.d
[16:13] <eviljames> beterraba: oh .kde/Autostart
[16:13] <AzalynX> if it works better, the 'mutation' is maintaind.
[16:13] <beterraba> eviljames: Thank you.
[16:13] <AzalynX> maintained**
[16:13] <AzalynX> eviljames: well, there is a fight, definitely.
[16:13] <dTd> I don't want no stinking mutan windmills I tell ya
[16:13] <dTd> mutant*
[16:13] <dive> haha
[16:14] <AzalynX> i want my windmill to have tentacles.
[16:14] <eviljames> tentacles?  Is that really the most efficient design?
[16:14] <pi31415> azalynx: with respects to human practice: does it actually work better, or did it win a popularity contest?
[16:14] <AzalynX> get some hentai going on up in dis hizzouze.
[16:14] <dTd> eviljames: for anime porn
[16:14] <eviljames> I'm not saying hentai windmills are a bad thing.  Just questioning ..
[16:14] <pi31415> respect
[16:14] <eviljames> bahaha
[16:14] <pi31415> eviljames: Are you tilting at windmills?
[16:14] <AzalynX> pi31415: what human practice?
[16:14] <eviljames> pi31415: ALWAYS.
[16:14] <AzalynX> you mean technologies?
[16:15] <pi31415> pi31415: windmill design, for example
[16:15] <AzalynX> like ipods and shit?
[16:15] <pi31415> er
[16:15] <AzalynX> winning because of marketing?
[16:15] <dive> I think the anti-evoluitonists feel like they are backed into a corner and fighting back
[16:15] <pi31415> i responded to myself, it is time for me to exit the conversation
[16:15] <AzalynX> well, the windmill example is one engineer designing his windmills that way.
[16:16] <dive> with luck darwinism will cause them to be bred out the race
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[16:16] <eviljames> pi31415: It's irc for the lonely.  http://noobfarm.org/viewquote.php?id=1433
[16:16] <dTd> Azalyn: sounds like he's run out of actual science based ideas
[16:16] <AzalynX> dTd: well, science *is* trial and error. :|
[16:16] <dTd> dive: idiocrasy anyone?
[16:16] <AzalynX> documented science was documented by doing experiments.
[16:16] <eviljames> Idiocracy is a perfect movie.
[16:17] <eviljames> It defines the problem SO WELL
[16:17] <dive> dTd, yeah good film :-)
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[16:17] <AzalynX> even the simple things like knowing that a rock sinks and log can float
[16:17] <AzalynX> had to use trial and error at first.
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[16:18] <dTd> thats how I got the clap, trial and error
[16:18] <AzalynX> :P
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[16:19] <dive> I was watching a program about a victorian farm last night, where they explained the process of cheesemaking - you need a substance called rennet that comes from a calf's stomach to start the separation of the milk - who on earth came up with that idea? and how?
[16:19] <dTd> they chucked some guts in with some old milk pails
[16:19] <AzalynX> they used to make containers to store liquids using the stomach of animals
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[16:19] <dive> AzalynX, ah good point
[16:20] <eviljames> dTd: I prefer your answer.  As though pails somehow predate milk.
[16:20] <eviljames> :D
[16:20] <eviljames> or cheese
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[16:20] <dTd> pails = container
[16:20] <dTd> I'm sure they do predate cheese
[16:21] <eviljames> Maybe, but there's no way to know for sure.
[16:21] <dive> well they did use to use animal parts for that but I thought it was bladders mainly
[16:21] <eviljames> containers probably, but I just pictured cro magnan man and his 4 Gallon steel milk pail
[16:21] <dTd> hrmm, you don't think a thing like a bowl predates cheese making?
[16:21] <dTd> heh
[16:22] <dTd> I didn't think they used internal organs for vessels, skins sowed together makes more sense
[16:22] <eviljames> Significantly more, I think.
[16:22] <eviljames> But I'm sure clay dishes have been around for quite some time too.
[16:22] <dive> internal bits are more waterproof?
[16:22] <AzalynX> they left some milk inside the stomach bottle thingie pouch (what the hell do you call those? they make them even today.. but with different materials)
[16:22] <dive> like a bladder
[16:22] <AzalynX> and it turned into cheese.
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[16:22] <AzalynX> what i want to know, is who the fuck tasted it?
[16:23] <straterra> A pussy who couldn't hunt and was hungry
[16:23] <dTd> it couldn't have looked appetizing
[16:23] <AzalynX> who the hell looks at that shit and thinks "oh, i should have some of that.
[16:23] <dive> hmm look this milks gone hard green and smells funny - well that's dinner taken care of then
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[16:23] <dTd> in a time where preservatives included drying in the sun, maybe it's not so wild
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[16:24] <dive> salt
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[16:24] <dTd> cromagnan salt, it does a body good
[16:25] <dTd> now there's a thought, how far back did man begin to use spices
[16:25] <dTd> other than the dirt he naturaly got on his food
[16:25] <eviljames> 6,000 years precisely.
[16:25] <dive> dunno i guess someone tried it and liked it
[16:25] <dTd> I imagine living close to the ocean helped
[16:26] <dive> then the spice trade began
[16:26] <AzalynX> you think a caveman somewhere sprinkles some dry leaves on his raw wild boar?
[16:26] <AzalynX> sprinkled**
[16:26] <dTd> yeah, they were hooked on those blue eyes
[16:26] <dive> no i would say someone hungry dug up some roots and found ginger
[16:26] <AzalynX> spices may have originated in ritualistic practices...
[16:26] <dTd> pepper to the eyes
[16:26] <dive> spices also smell strong
[16:26] <dTd> weapons
[16:27] <dTd> ;)
[16:27] <dive> cromagnum mace?
[16:27] <AzalynX> i can't imagine primitive humans being smart enough to think about adding flavour to foods, not to mention that some spices are uh, spicy.
[16:27] <eviljames> dive: Can you help me acquire a chrome magnum?
[16:27] <AzalynX> so it might've been done in rituals at first or something
[16:27] <AzalynX> sprinkle this stuff on your food to make the demons go away?
[16:27] <dive> cromagnum mace = calfs blader filled with pepper and whey to make it stick
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[16:29] <dTd> napalm in a bag
[16:29] <dive> cromagnon even
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[16:30] <straterra> I have a chrome .38 Special
[16:30] <straterra> Does that count?
[16:30] <dive> although I prefer A C Clarkes version in the opening scene of 2001
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[16:30] <eviljames> straterra: Yes.
[16:30] <dive> is it a 38 magnum?
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[16:30] <dive> nope
[16:30] <AzalynX> http://jerrytam.com/images/fw06/ACC-OILSLICK-CANTEEN-BAG.jpg
[16:30] <AzalynX> that's the kind of bottle i mant earlier
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[16:31] <dTd> nice shot
[16:31] <AzalynX> not sure if there's a specific name for it
[16:31] <AzalynX> other than "canteen bag" :|
[16:31] <dive> I'm sure there were a lot about years ago
[16:32] <eviljames> AzalynX: Flask perhaps
[16:32] <AzalynX> flask is in metal though..
[16:32] <AzalynX> like those liquor ones
[16:32] <dive> or plastic
[16:32] <eviljames> ah, ok.
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[16:33] <dive>    Besides its normal use to the possessor, animal bladders (usually pig bladders) have been used to make balls (such as
[16:33] <dive>    footballs) and even a musical instrument, the bumbass.
[16:33] <dTd> http://www.kullaspost.com/photos/KP%20Canteen%20Flask%20in%20pouch%20(2).jpg
[16:34] <dive> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bladder
[16:34] <dTd> thus the pigskin
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[16:34] <dTd> why did I read dumbass when I saw bumbass?
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[16:35] <AzalynX> http://www.campbound.com/ProductImages/waterbottles/canteens/LeatherBota.jpg
[16:35] <AzalynX> "bota bag" ? heh
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[16:35] <AzalynX> but these are the modern kind.
[16:35] <dive> I think that dumbass is the technical term for someone trying to play a pig's bladder
[16:35] <AzalynX> the stomach ones were shaped similarly i believe.
[16:36] <AzalynX> hm, jackpot.
[16:36] <AzalynX> "wineskin"
[16:36] <AzalynX> http://images.google.com/images?q=wineskin
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[16:37] <dionysian> hey
[16:37] <bittin> hello
[16:37] <AzalynX> greetings traveler.
[16:37] <dive> evening dionysian
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[16:38] <dionysian> so i'm trying to figure out what distro to put on my aunt's computer. she doesn't know anything about linux and she has a family (husband and kids) that need to use it, as well
[16:39] <dionysian> on top of that, it's kind of an old computer, with limited resources
[16:39] <straterra> XP
[16:39] <straterra> or Windows 2000
[16:41] <dionysian> FAIL
[16:41] <dartmouth> hi, i have a webcam that is being detected, but skype is looking for the device at /dev/video0, but i cannot seem to locate which device the camera is actually being assigned to.
[16:41] <straterra> dartmouth: check dmesg
[16:41] <straterra> the driver should say
[16:41] <dionysian> straterra: worst advice ever
[16:41] <eviljames> dionysian: xubuntu
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[16:41] <straterra> dionysian: No its not
[16:41] <eviljames> dionysian: and then tell them to check the forums for help instead of calling you
[16:41] <straterra> You have people that don't know how to use Linux..
[16:42] <straterra> And most likely have windows only apps
[16:42] <straterra> or want to play some games
[16:42] <dionysian> eviljames: just wondering if that is a little too bloated for limited resources
[16:42] <straterra> What resource is limited?
[16:42] <eviljames> dionysian: That depends on your definitions of 'bloated' and 'limited'
[16:42] <dionysian> eviljames: true
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[16:42] <straterra> I'd just put Windows back on it and be done with it
[16:43] <eviljames> These days I tell people to buy a netbook and hook up their monitor/mouse/keyboard to it.
[16:43] <dTd> and get them a good router/firewall
[16:43] <dionysian> it's a p4 with 500M ram
[16:43] <eviljames> The majority of people don't seem to need more than an atom 1.6 w/ 512MB
[16:43] <straterra> That machine would run Windows 2000 just fine
[16:43] <straterra> 500 megs of ram? That's an odd ammount
[16:43] <straterra> It should also run most distros + X just fine
[16:44] <dionysian> /ignore stratera
[16:44] <straterra> ZOMG! I CAN PUBLICALLY ANNOUNCE I'M IGNORING SOMEONEZ!!1!111!!!oneone!!111!!
[16:44] <straterra> How 1995
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[16:44] <eviljames> have to make sure that you put the "one" in there, that way people know your speakign srsly
[16:44] <straterra> right
[16:44] <dTd> heh
[16:44] <dionysian> you forgot to say shift
[16:45] <Dominian> that is so oftc...
[16:45] <straterra> dionysian: GFYS
[16:45] <hackedhead> also forgot eleven
[16:45] <dive> eleventyone!!
[16:45] <dTd> thats how old bilbo is
[16:45] <agentc0re|work> wow, looks like i'm missing some fun.
[16:46] <AzalynX> oh snap, interesting discussion, too bad i have to go home. keep it up, i'll be there in 15-20 minutes or so. :)
[16:46] Action: agentc0re|work hands straterra the eel cannon
[16:46] <eviljames> dionysian: I'd think you could shoe-horn a fluxbox or windowmaker slackware box into their system
[16:46] <agentc0re|work> It's locked, cocked and ready to rock.
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[16:46] <eviljames> dionysian: If you wanted it to be really lightweight
[16:46] <straterra> agentc0re|work: I already dispensed the "go fuck your self" acronym
[16:46] <dionysian> yeah, straterra is having an aneurysm over the prospect of linux being installed
[16:46] <straterra> No I'm not
[16:46] <eviljames> dionysian: but they won't be able to use it at all
[16:47] <straterra> You're having a conniption over someone suggesting a non-Linux alternative
[16:47] <dionysian> eviljames: eh, i'd set it up... easy transition
[16:47] <straterra> Since you gave such vague information
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[16:48] <dionysian> straterra: i was searching for a linux solution, you started dispensing with microsoft solutions. not useful at all. frankly it's counterproductive.
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[16:48] <straterra> You didn't give any specific information..and frankly, older version of Windows on older hardware DOES run better
[16:48] <straterra> Also you said the people have no linux experience..and know jack shit about Linux
[16:48] <dTd> vectorlinux is designed for older HW isn't it?
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[16:48] <straterra> Giving people what they know isn't a bad idea
[16:49] <agentc0re|work> http://www.blogodoom.com/images/LOLCODE.jpg
[16:49] <straterra> Especially if they have OS specific apps or w/e
[16:49] <dionysian> 99% of what they do now is in firefox and thunderbird
[16:49] <dartmouth> http://pastebin.com/m58e4a5b8 <-- ok this is all that dmesg gives when the camera is plugged in.
[16:49] <dartmouth> ohci_hcd?
[16:49] <dive> seriously, set it up with slack and try xfce/flux, install their browser addons and email prog, then when it's all working make it boot into runlevel 4
[16:49] <straterra> If there are kids, I bet they need to use Office.
[16:49] <straterra> Are you going to install Office in Wine for them?
[16:49] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: That is AWESOME.  It is already making the rounds in my office over our IM system.
[16:50] <dTd> they could use oo.o, most people I suggest that too are very pleased
[16:50] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: we use resources efficiently here.
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[16:50] <dive> they wont need to contact you unless they say they want to install xyz prog that they heard of
[16:50] <straterra> dTd: unless its an office class where they have to do office things
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[16:50] <straterra> Like a lot of high schools have
[16:50] <agentc0re|work> eviljames: HAHAH
[16:50] <dionysian> they have openoffice installed at the moment, so openoffice -> openoffice won't be much of a transition
[16:50] <dTd> strankan: roger that!
[16:50] <jkwood> I have a friend who doesn't like Openoffice, but she's about as picky as they come.
[16:50] <jkwood> She won't admit it, of course.
[16:50] <dTd> oops
[16:51] <straterra> dionysian didn't give very much information..and expected zomgexact results that fit in his little box
[16:51] <agentc0re|work> eviljames: http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/funny-pictures-kitten-macbook-leopard.jpg
[16:51] <eviljames> agentc0re|work: That one just makes me want to punch you.
[16:51] <straterra> I'm going home
[16:51] <dionysian> straterra: stfu. i said "i'm looking for a distro of linux..." and you responded with "windows xp"
[16:51] <straterra> dionysian: You didn't say Linux
[16:51] <straterra> And you gave vague information
[16:51] <jkwood> Slackware -current with KDE 4.
[16:52] <straterra> So, I gave a recommendation based on your little information
[16:52] <dionysian> kde4 wouldn't run too well
[16:52] <straterra> If you don't like it, learn to ask better questions
[16:52] <dive> aw cute kitten picz
[16:52] <jkwood> What makes you think that?
[16:52] <straterra> I'm not a mind reader..as most people in here aren't
[16:52] <dartmouth> haha.  dionysian straterra forgot more about linux last night during an encounter with a cold beer than you'll be able to fake in your entire career.  -lol-
[16:52] <slackytude> greetings
[16:52] <jkwood> Have you tried it?
[16:52] <dionysian> it's a p4 with 512M and onboard graphics
[16:52] <straterra> So?
[16:52] <jkwood> And?
[16:52] <straterra> What about that won't run KDE4 well?
[16:53] <dionysian> kde4 doesn't even run that well on my core duo with 1G
[16:53] <straterra> Then you're doing something wrong
[16:53] <dive> o0
[16:53] <jkwood> What video card?
[16:53] <dionysian> intel
[16:53] <dionysian> it's not that it won't run
[16:53] <eviljames> dionysian: Sadly, that last point makes me agree with straterra.  kde4 should be great on both the p4 w/ 512 and the core2 w/ 1g
[16:53] <straterra> Then..turn off the visual effects
[16:53] <jkwood> Yep.  Visual effects.
[16:54] <dionysian> not much of a point to it without visual effects :)
[16:54] <thrice`> kde4 consumes about 400mb of ram loaded on my box
[16:54] <alienBOB> dionysian: I run slackware-current and KDE 4.2.1 on my Eeepc 1000H (1GB of RAM) with OpenGL compositing enabled by default, and it runs fine
[16:54] <dTd> then make it look good, and intuitive and worth the space ;) I'm not a kde fan mind you, but it does run well
[16:54] <straterra> Three letters.. D I W
[16:55] <dartmouth> http://pastebin.com/m6f8bf15d  <-- anyone ever seen this issue?
[16:55] <dTd> DIY? ;)
[16:55] <jkwood> Well... the visual effects are certainly nice, and I recommend everyone to try the snow effect at least once in their lives, but it's still pretty nice without them.
[16:56] <dTd> it's all in what you want or like , the beauty of linux ... choice
[16:56] <dartmouth> jkwood: it's my understanding e17 still blows kde4 out of the water in that department
[16:56] <thrice`> heh, you fail
[16:56] <dartmouth> probably
[16:56] <dive> dartmouth, you probably need make a custom udev rule for it, or, make a symlink and see if that works (might be easier)
[16:57] <jkwood> Hmm... haven't tried e17.
[16:57] <slackytude> gah, udev rule
[16:57] <Dominian> until e17 releases someting stable.. I am not touching it again
[16:57] <slackytude> s
[16:57] <Dominian> its been in development since jkwood was a sperm
[16:57] <dartmouth> dive: that would be great, but im not sure what device to symlink to video0
[16:57] <dTd> I didn't see anything so special about e17
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[16:57] <dTd> other than it's a confusing interface
[16:57] <dive> dartmouth, erm: Bus 003 Device 002: ID 0733:0430 ViewQuest Technologies, Inc. Intel Pro Share Webcam
[16:58] <dartmouth> dive: yes.  i have no idea what you're trying to tell me.
[16:58] <dive> iow ls /proc/bus/usb/
[16:58] <dive> and find it it in 003/002
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[16:59] <dive> but that probaby won't work
[16:59] <dive> not as a link
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[17:00] <dartmouth> well.  i just noticed i can cat /dev/video as well as /dev/video0 now.  it wasn't doing this before.  but i have not been able to capture an image from the device, yet
[17:00] <dive> check perms on it
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[17:01] <dive> if you can't cat it as normal user then skype won't either
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[17:01] <dartmouth> dive: http://pastebin.com/m6a4a2234
[17:01] <dartmouth> ohh
[17:01] <dartmouth> i get it.
[17:02] <dive> are you in video group?
[17:02] <dartmouth> no lol.
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[17:03] <dartmouth> heh.
[17:03] Action: dartmouth hides
[17:03] <dive> ...
[17:03] <dive> 'gpasswd -a dartmouth video'
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[17:04] <dive> then log out of X, out of console, back in again, startx
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[17:05] <dartmouth> ok i have skype reading the device now
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[17:05] <dartmouth> but i guess it's all jumbled video
[17:06] <dive> that's as far as my knowledge of webcams extends to since I hate the damn things
[17:06] <dartmouth> dammit
[17:07] <dive> doesn't skype have a way of showing you the image it's picking up?
[17:07] <dive> or maybe some other app does..
[17:07] <dive> wouldn't know
[17:08] <dartmouth> yeah it shows it to me
[17:08] <dartmouth> it looks like a scrambled cable image.  like those channels you're not supposed to get.
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[17:16] <Azalyn> damnit, it's over.
[17:16] <dive> I forgot what we were discussing...
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[17:16] <dive> oh yes, dionysian and his aunt's linux distro
[17:17] <Azalyn> heh
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[17:17] <dive> I knew someone called llama man once
[17:17] <Azalyn> most old people i know just want to browse the web, read email (which is often webmail), and play solitaire and shit.
[17:17] <l4m4_m4n> I am somebody else.
[17:18] <dive> yeah I guess so
[17:18] <thumbs> l4m4_m4n: what?
[17:18] <l4m4_m4n> :)
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[17:18] <dive> Azalyn, yeah I still stand by installing slack, get it all up and running, then get it to boot to level4
[17:18] <l4m4_m4n> thumbs: dive wrote: I knew someone called llama man once
[17:19] <l4m4_m4n> dive: at least i hope he/she was really lama
[17:19] <dive> well no I think llama
[17:19] <dive> plays UT
[17:19] <dive> so it would be ll
[17:20] <dive> met him up the pub
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[17:20] <l4m4_m4n> oh
[17:20] <l4m4_m4n> :)
[17:21] <Camarade_Tux> I'm starting to love Ted Ts'o : he bashes down ubuntu and firefox ^^
[17:21] <l4m4_m4n> OK, see you later alligators!
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[17:22] <dTd> Camarade_Tux: ?
[17:22] <Azalyn> HOW OFFENSIVE! I'm not an alligator!
[17:22] <Azalyn> I'm a crocodile.
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[17:22] <Azalyn> How TYPICAL. It's racism I tell you.
[17:23] <dive> Camarade_Tux, huh?
[17:23] <dive> what is Ted T?
[17:23] <Camarade_Tux> http://thunk.org/tytso/blog/2009/03/15/dont-fear-the-fsync/ : "So these 2.54 megabytes is just for Firefox’s cookie cache and Places database to maintain its “Awesome bar”.  Is that really worth it?"
[17:24] <Camarade_Tux> he's a kernel hacker, one of the first afaik
[17:24] <dive> ah
[17:24] <dive> reading..
[17:24] <Camarade_Tux> and he's working on ext4 ;)
[17:24] <dive> good chap then
[17:24] <Camarade_Tux> (ubuntu bashing was in his previous blog post)
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[17:26] <Camarade_Tux> wow, were have I gotten that link ? http://www.dokimos.org/ajff/ (nsfte : not safe for the eyes)
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[17:28] <dTd> yeah thats great
[17:28] <dTd> I just had a seizure
[17:28] <Azalyn> Camarade_Tux: I disagree with his point on firefox.
[17:28] <Azalyn> firefox has a lot of problems, but synching each page access to the history/session file(s) is *NOT* one of them.
[17:29] <Azalyn> That is just proper design.
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[17:30] <dTd> bleh, it's all just too much, I haven't liked FF for a long time....I would love to see them go back to being just a browser that showed pages correctly in as small an app as possible
[17:30] <Azalyn> no matter what kind of crash, it has to be able to recover everything.
[17:30] <Camarade_Tux> a *much* more saner approach would be spawning another thread/app that would communicate with the browser but wouldn't be directly linked to it so that it survives in case of a crash and doesn't need to sync every second
[17:30] <Azalyn> Camarade_Tux: no, what if that app/library crashes too?
[17:30] <slackytude2> dTd, tried opera lately?
[17:31] <dTd> using it
[17:31] <Camarade_Tux> that wouldn't help in the case of hard crash, only firefox crashes but anyway, our systems are stable, we're not ubuntu, crap, they're targetting ubuntu...
[17:31] <slackytude2> heh
[17:31] <Azalyn> i actually do think it should be a separate component, however it still has to sync on *every* page limit or every relevant change.
[17:31] <Azalyn> although firefox does take it a *little* far.. :|
[17:31] <Azalyn> for example, they even store the scrollbar position
[17:32] <Azalyn> pages that are restored after a crash will start with the scrollbar in the same position, not *that* might be taking it a little too far.
[17:32] <Camarade_Tux> Azalyn, no, it doesn't : a web browser has reasons to crash, it's impossible to avoid but having an app that gets properly formatted data from an IPC and writes it to the disk and DOESN'T DO ANYTHING ELSE, really shouldn't crash
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[17:32] <Camarade_Tux> you want your data to be safe, don't let a web browser handle it, have a separate process for that
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[17:33] <Camarade_Tux> s/no, it doesn't/no, it doesn't crash/
[17:33] <slackytude2> anybody read the ms study about ie8's speed? faster than ff, safari and all
[17:33] <Azalyn> i still believe real-time writes is a necessity.
[17:33] <Azalyn> what if the power goes out?
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[17:33] <Azalyn> i would go as far as to suggest that the database have it's *own* journal for extra safety.
[17:33] <Camarade_Tux> same a hard crash, you're fucked, I admit
[17:33] <slackytude2> Azalyn, in that case you lose anyway, since most fs wont sync as fast anyway
[17:33] <Azalyn> no i'm not, not if it writes in real time.
[17:34] <Camarade_Tux> but honestly firefox's current data saving scheme doesn't save much...
[17:34] <Azalyn> screw you for wanting to lose data when it's preventable.
[17:34] <Azalyn> firefox does a lot of things wrong, but *THAT* is not one of them.
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[17:34] <Azalyn> in fact, you picked the ONE thing it does that it does right.
[17:34] <Azalyn> to criticize.
[17:34] <Camarade_Tux> it is preventable but I don't think firefox manages to do it properly
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[17:35] <Camarade_Tux> he, I don't like a *single* thing in firefox, and I only picked the one mentionned by Ted Ts'o
[17:35] <Azalyn> slackytude2: ted's article suggests syncs every 15-30 minutes.
[17:35] <Azalyn> so no, i wouldn't "lose anyways"
[17:36] <Azalyn> maybe i'd lose the last visited page. as opposed to 15 minutes worth of shit i visited.
[17:36] <Azalyn> or 30.
[17:36] <slackytude2> Azalyn, in the case of a power failure, you would most definitly lose data, no matter what you do
[17:36] <slackytude2> Azalyn, besides that point, I dont care really much. Never liked FF anyway
[17:37] <Azalyn> you still don't seem to see the difference between losing one page vs 10 pages.
[17:37] <slackytude2> Its what I use if the alternatice is ie
[17:38] <Azalyn> I don't really like FF either. But it just happens to be the best we've got. The 3.1 branch is very promising though.
[17:38] <Azalyn> tracemonkey is fast as hell. heh
[17:39] <Azalyn> Camarade_Tux: by the way, what do these apps use instead of fsync() to do what they need?
[17:39] <Camarade_Tux> actually if you're sync'ing when the * failure occur and have a shared data structure that holds all your pages, you're likely to lose everything in it so sync'ing very often could actually result in *more* data loss (not the _could_)
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[17:39] <Camarade_Tux> Azalyn, they do
[17:40] <Azalyn> Camarade_Tux: hence why i said it should have it's own journal for extra safety.
[17:40] <Azalyn> and other error recovery features.
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[17:40] <Azalyn> Camarade_Tux: I figured if they criticize it, then they must be using something else.
[17:40] <Camarade_Tux> or currently developping something else... :D
[17:41] <Azalyn> in the kernel? :|
[17:41] <Camarade_Tux> (forget that, misread)
[17:41] <Camarade_Tux> no, no, I misread your sentence ;)
[17:41] <slackytude2> no heriocs is quite good
[17:42] <dTd> well, if you read both articles, it's all interelated
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[17:42] <dTd> and using ext3 basicaly gets you writes every 5 seconds whether you write for it or not
[17:43] <Camarade_Tux> I don't think firefox was meant to save any data in case of a hard crash/power failure but rather in case of a browser crash and that's why an independant daemon only managing writes to the disk would be better as it wouldn't crash
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[17:43] <Camarade_Tux> (yeah, I believe they can make something that doesn't crash...)
[17:43] <dTd> everything can crash
[17:43] <slackytude2> every program ca be reduced to a singe line, containing a bg
[17:43] <dTd> but, to get the kind of security we had with ext3 while using ext4 they need to adopt different practices
[17:44] <Camarade_Tux> I know I'm over-optimistic but at least it will crash *far less often* than firefox currently does
[17:44] <Camarade_Tux> I mean, faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar less often
[17:44] <dive> I just wish it would load faster
[17:44] <dTd> so the large speed increases from delayed allocation aren't quite as large as they might have been
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[17:45] <Camarade_Tux> (that shouldn't be very hard if they don't put a timer that crashes every 20 minutes)
[17:45] <dTd> FF only crashes in flash for me, does it crash at other times for you?
[17:46] <Azalyn> Camarade_Tux: firefox will keep data regardless of any circumstances, and that is The Right Way (TM)
[17:46] <Camarade_Tux> dTd, yeah, of course but >75% of the crashes are because of flash (which I don't install anymore \o/ )
[17:46] <Azalyn> these days office suites do it too i believe, to prevent data loss from any sort of crash.
[17:46] <Camarade_Tux> (and no gnash either)
[17:46] <dTd> I've never gotten gnash to run one page
[17:47] <dTd> maybe it's me :)
[17:47] <dTd> but I do like the hulu ;)
[17:47] <slava_dp> me neither.
[17:48] <Camarade_Tux> dTd, I got the last release to play youtube videos but it took me two long tries and it has a lot of *soft* dependencies so it will probably tell you it doesn't have audio codec X and video codec Y so it will play the stream but without sound, and without video =)
[17:48] <dTd> heh
[17:49] <slava_dp> it has a hell lot of dependencies.
[17:49] <dTd> Camarade_Tux: thats about all I got, either no sound or no vid
[17:49] <Camarade_Tux> Azalyn, well, I still don't think it's the right way, I'll try to prove it with an example in a few months (I'll buy beer to the whole channel if I succeed in that ;) )
[17:49] Action: dive wakes up
[17:49] <dTd> but, I should think I would have those deps, since I have a complete transcode with all codecs
[17:50] <Camarade_Tux> dTd, do you have : gstreamer, ffmpeg, ffmpeg-gstreamer, gstreamer-bad, gstreamer-ugly, gstreamer-good, x264, ... ?
[17:50] <dTd> yeah
[17:50] <psychicist> last time I tried gnash back in november, it played pretty much all youtube videos including sound. it was the other sites with flash 9 and newer content that didn't work for me
[17:50] <dTd> maybe I should try it again
[17:51] <Camarade_Tux> I've forgotten to copy the configure line ><
[17:51] <Camarade_Tux> it was 7*24 characters long =)
[17:51] <dTd> heh
[17:51] <slava_dp> nay maybe you shouldn't =)
[17:51] <dTd> sounds like a typical transcode line, or an old mplayer build
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[18:21] <TwinReverb> anyone happen to know what the default Open Office fonts are?
[18:21] <TwinReverb> i'm hoping to try their defaults back out without dumping some dot files / directories.
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[18:22] <kitche2> TwinReverb: I used to know
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[18:25] Nick change: dive -> dive^
[18:25] <firebird619> TwinReverb: A few different results from a google search is saying "Kotchi Gothic" is the default.
[18:25] Nick change: dive^ -> dive
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[18:28] <Cotowar> hey guys
[18:29] <firebird619> Hey. How are you?
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[18:34] <adrenaline> Anybody successfull getting nxserver to run on slackware?
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[18:39] <alienBOB> adrenaline: I run freenx on my server at home
[18:40] <adrenaline> Did you post it on your site?
[18:41] <alienBOB> Yes - SlackBuilds and packages
[18:42] <alienBOB> http://www.slackware.com/~alien/slackbuilds/freenx/
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[18:45] <NyteOwl> Greetings Programs!
[18:45] <NyteOwl> and Scripts :)
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[18:47] <adrenaline> Thanks alienBOB
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[18:54] <Pig_Pen> A man who was wheelchair bound due to a motorcycle accident twenty years ago gained the ability to walk again after being bitten by a Brown Recluse (Fiddleback) spider.
[18:54] <Camarade_Tux> spiderman !
[18:54] <__lucass> spider-pig!
[18:55] <DeiBellum> Last time a spider bit me it left a scar =(
[18:55] <NyteOwl> Pig_Pen: yes, saw that on the news yesterday. pretty amazing
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[18:55] <Pig_Pen> just now on slashdot
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[18:56] <Pig_Pen> we have brown recluse spiders here in oklahoma, they are really nasty little spiders - worse than the black widow
[18:56] <Camarade_Tux> well, my bed calls me, good night
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[18:56] <cpunches> hi. v4l package in slack doesn't include v4l-conf?
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[18:56] <kitche> does slackware even have v4l?
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[18:59] <DeiBellum> it is apart of the xf86 packages
[19:00] <hitest> Pig_Pen:  yeah I just read that article about the man regaining his ability to walk.....amazing:)
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[19:08] <pirving> when is the next slackware release expected?
[19:08] <straterra> Whenever Pat feels like it
[19:08] <Zosma> Yesterday
[19:08] <alienBOB> In the future
[19:09] <NyteOwl> the Twelfth of Never
[19:09] <DeiBellum> maybe never
[19:09] <alienBOB> The 25th hour
[19:09] <DeiBellum> 3 seconds ago
[19:09] <NyteOwl> based on recent patterns maybe May
[19:09] <__lucass> now
[19:09] <NyteOwl> maybe not
[19:09] <DeiBellum> We should start betting on when the next release will be
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[19:10] <DeiBellum> do it by week
[19:10] <nullboy> that wouldn't be a fair game to play
[19:10] <DeiBellum> betting starts as the last version is release (i.e 12.2) and ends 1 week after it is released
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[19:11] <dusty__> Hey guys.  How do I get Compiz Fusion working under Slackware 12.2 and KDE 3.5.  I have installed all of the packages listed here: http://slackbuilds.org/repository/12.2/desktop/fusion-icon/ - not sure what to do next ?
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[19:11] <DeiBellum> So the betting for 12.3 or 13.0 would have started on 12-10-08 and ended on 12-17-08. It makes it fair for everyone who is apart of slackware
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[19:13] <Zosma> DeiBellum: what about nethack release predictions?
[19:13] <Zosma> Extra points?
[19:13] <DeiBellum> increased payout
[19:13] <Zosma> :-)
[19:14] <DeiBellum> It could be very profitable for slackware, we just have to prey on peoples gambling addictions =P
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[19:14] <LnxSlck> DeiBellum, are you talking about a betting pool?
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[19:15] <DeiBellum> yeah, except not all of the bets placed get payed out. Only say... 75% do
[19:15] <DeiBellum> so if someone puts $10 and looses, 2.5 goes to SLackware and the rest goes to the winner
[19:16] <LnxSlck> not bad
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[19:16] <DeiBellum> Everybody (except the people who better wrong) wins!
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[19:17] <DeiBellum> beted*
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[19:17] <DeiBellum> betted*. crappy keyboard
[19:17] <dusty_> Hey guys.  How do I get Compiz Fusion working under Slackware 12.2 and KDE 3.5.  I have installed all of the packages listed here: http://slackbuilds.org/repository/12.2/desktop/fusion-icon/ - not sure what to do next ?
[19:17] <Urchlay> I don't think "betted" is a word
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[19:18] <DeiBellum> ... to me it is
[19:18] <straterra> I think bet is the past tense version
[19:18] <Urchlay> dair enough
[19:18] <Urchlay> er, fair enough
[19:18] Action: Urchlay can't type either
[19:19] <DeiBellum> dusty_, have you tried looking at http://wiki.compiz-fusion.org/CompizFusionIcon ?
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[19:20] <NyteOwl> bet is both present and past tense
[19:20] <NyteOwl> it's an irregualr verb
[19:20] <DeiBellum> stupid English language
[19:21] <chopp> SiegeX: ping
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[19:23] <Urchlay> English is so irregular, you could call it a constipated language...
[19:23] <kitche> betted is a word
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[19:24] <kitche> bet betted bets are verbs for the noun bet
[19:24] <straterra> betted doesnt seem..proper
[19:24] <Urchlay> in which country?
[19:25] <Urchlay> "betted" definitely isn't US English, and AFAIK not UK either
[19:25] <kitche> it's in webster
[19:26] <kitche> it's irregular
[19:26] <dusty_> DeiBellum, thank you.
[19:26] <DeiBellum> dusty_, no problem :)
[19:27] <Urchlay> never heard anyone over the age of about 5 say "betted"
[19:27] <Urchlay> sorta like little kids saying "Teacher! He hitted me!"
[19:27] <dtanner> heh
[19:28] <kitche> most just say bet
[19:28] <dusty_> Awesome! Ran fusion-icon and it just works ;-]
[19:28] <dusty_> God I LOVE slackware!
[19:28] <DeiBellum> Glad to hear it!
[19:28] <Urchlay> so what useful things can you do with compiz fusion?
[19:28] <kitche> most people have heard it in betted the farm
[19:28] <Urchlay> (the desktop cube thing doesn't look useful...)
[19:28] <dusty_> Urchlay, None, lol ;-] Can speed up productivity a bit.
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[19:29] <kitche> Urchlay: more for show really
[19:29] <NyteOwl> betted the farm? Never heard that one
[19:29] <Urchlay> I've heard "bought the farm"
[19:29] <kitche> NyteOwl: really?
[19:29] Action: NyteOwl never heard betted at all till this discussion :)
[19:29] <NyteOwl> bet the farm yes but not betted
[19:29] <NyteOwl> sounds like "ghetto slang"
[19:30] <NyteOwl> then again webster's is stupid enough to call blog a word
[19:30] <NyteOwl> it's actually a contraction of an irregualr compound word
[19:30] <Urchlay> I suppose any group of letters with a meaning agreed on by more than 1 person is a word
[19:30] <kitche> NyteOwl: betted is more an old english word really
[19:30] <Urchlay> at least in the loosest possible definition
[19:30] <kitche> last tiem it was really used was back in 1980's
[19:31] Action: NyteOwl is considerably older that and has still never ehard it till now :)
[19:31] <Urchlay> old english hasn't been spoken since before the 980's :)
[19:31] <NyteOwl> anyway, language tends to vary from palce to place. they're called dialects :)
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[19:31] <kitche> it's reare in American English from what I have seen
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[19:31] <NyteOwl> kitche: and as far as I've ehard non-existant in Canadian :)
[19:31] <kitche> Uk English used it more then American English did from what i can find
[19:33] <kitche> is Ottawa mainly french speaking or no?
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[19:34] <NyteOwl> kitche: no, mostly Englich but's more bilingual than anything else
[19:34] <NyteOwl> er English speaking
[19:34] <kitche> ah just wondering sicne my mom has to go there now for work
[19:35] <NyteOwl> kitche: it's predominantlye Anglophone but as it's the capital and close to Quebec a large percentage of the population as bilingual
[19:36] <chopp> Queerbec
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[19:38] <NyteOwl> kitche: what kind of work does she do?
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[19:39] <NyteOwl> chopp: if you get that phone you might want to grab Opera Mini. The browser that comes preinstalled (at elast Bell's) sucks in comparison
[19:39] <kitche> NyteOwl: she's in Healthcare services but she's a manager trainer
[19:40] <NyteOwl> cool
[19:40] <kitche> housekeeping laundry
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[19:40] <chopp> NyteOwl: what is the browser that's pre-installed?
[19:42] <NyteOwl> chopp: Access Mobile Browser Netfront v3.4
[19:43] <chopp> NyteOwl: allright thanks for the tip. :)
[19:43] <NyteOwl> chopp: and make sure you get the signed version of Opera Mini ior you won't be able to sue it to download files :)
[19:44] <chopp> ok
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[19:44] <NyteOwl> chopp: one of the nicest things about Opera Mini is that you can change the screen orientation from prtarit to landscape and get more page width on the screen
[19:45] <chopp> NyteOwl: awsome, I used to be able to do that with my zaurus.
[19:45] <NyteOwl> same effect as turing ann iPhone on it's side but in software not hardware ;)
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[19:47] <chopp> fsck iphone
[19:47] <chopp> SiegeX: ping
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[19:47] <NyteOwl> I got to play with a Storm. Nice phone but to expensive for what I'd use
[19:49] <chopp> I would like an neo freerunner if I had money to burn.
[19:52] <NyteOwl> reminds me aI wanted to price a tire size online ...
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[19:55] <NyteOwl> $500 for summer's. Not as bad as I thought
[19:55] <Urchlay> I remember messing with netfront when it was new
[19:55] <Urchlay> it was horrible...
[19:56] <NyteOwl> Urchlay: I don't think it has changed much
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[19:56] <NyteOwl> what nobody has winter tires in that size (not that I'm surprised)
[19:57] <Urchlay> this was for a "thin client" mini-PC with 8M of solid state storage... we actually found the old Mosaic browser was better than Netfront
[19:57] <NyteOwl> heh
[19:57] <NyteOwl> yes I would agree Mosaic is better than Netfront
[19:57] <Urchlay> finally talked them into 16 megs of storage so we could run netscape 4
[19:58] <NyteOwl> hmm no all seasons in that size either :/
[19:58] <Urchlay> what makes a tire a winter tire?
[19:58] <NyteOwl> looks like it would have to be smaller tires for winter
[19:59] <NyteOwl> Urchlay: tread pattern, type of rubber, sidewall construction
[19:59] <Urchlay> hm, I only ever think about changing tires once they've developed a leak or a bubble
[20:00] <NyteOwl> winter and summer tires are markedly different in construction. All-Seasons are a compromise
[20:00] <Urchlay> didn't even know there was a difference... maybe that's why they blow up on me.
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[20:01] <Urchlay> "Hmm, I can see the steel belt, better replace that tire in a week or two"
[20:01] <slava_dp> anyone knows how to properly version scripts (using the $Id: stuff) ?
[20:02] <alienBOB> man rcs
[20:02] <Urchlay> with what, CVS?
[20:02] <Urchlay> AFAIK you just put $Id$ in the file somewhere, and it'll get filled in when you check it out
[20:02] <NyteOwl> Urchlay: I really didn't expect t fid winter tires in 285/40R18 in ANY speed rating :)
[20:02] <NyteOwl> er find
[20:04] <NyteOwl> same for 245/45R18's
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[20:06] <slava_dp> alienBOB, eh, thanks, gonna check.
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[20:09] <Pig_Pen> totally off topic, but any old navy or nautical hands in here, my question is = when at sea what is the visable horizon? i am thinking 9 miles or something close to that
[20:09] <Pig_Pen> visible? (spelling)
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[20:12] <Cann0n> hey
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[20:15] <Pig_Pen> ah, there is a "true horizion and a visible horision, when at sea every direction is a true horizion which is about 10 mileshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon
[20:15] <firebird619> Cann0n: Hey. How are you?
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[20:16] <NyteOwl> Pig_Pen: it also depends on how far above the surface you are
[20:16] <Cann0n> im good
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[20:18] <Cann0n> anyone know about setting up an ATI IXP AC97 dial up modem
[20:18] <NyteOwl> last ATI Modem I sued was  9600 bps extenrnal heh
[20:18] danc3 (n=danc3@ip70-187-39-97.pn.at.cox.net) joined ##slackware.
[20:19] <NyteOwl> is that integrated on the board or some such?
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[20:19] <Cann0n> yeah
[20:19] <Cann0n> its on me lappy
[20:20] <Cann0n> we canceled satellite ISP hence why i havent been on in a few months
[20:20] <NyteOwl> sat can get expensive
[20:20] <NyteOwl> though for soem folks it's the only option
[20:22] <NyteOwl> AC97? sounds like it's one of those "soundcard modems"
[20:22] Nick change: dive -> evildive
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[20:22] Nick change: evildive -> dive
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[20:23] <NyteOwl> Cann0n: this might help ... http://student.icis.pcz.pl/~89573/laptop/
[20:24] <Pig_Pen> yeah, i was looking at wikipedia, there is a mathematical formula for the crows nest on ships
[20:24] <Cann0n> it is a soundcard modem
[20:25] <Cann0n> a dspmodem aka mwave iirc
[20:25] <NyteOwl> that article seemed to indicate the linuxant driver worked with it but the free version is limited
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[20:26] <dive> would be better off trying to pick up a cheap hardware modem methinks
[20:27] <Cann0n> yeah
[20:27] <NyteOwl> Cann0n: even more informative ... https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/wvdialconf-wont-recognize-modem-367043/
[20:27] <Cann0n> O.o thx
[20:28] <NyteOwl> there is a link to a how-to about 3/4 down the page
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[20:28] <dive> that's if you have a serial port on it of course
[20:29] <NyteOwl> USRobotics make a USB dongle hardware 56k modem. No idea of price
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[20:29] <Cann0n> i hate dial up lol
[20:29] Action: slava_dp hates dial up as well
[20:29] <NyteOwl> get better performance from hardware based controllers too
[20:30] <dartmouth> is there a way i can automate an sshfs mount without requiring a password on the client-end?  i have physical security on the client machine, and was wondering if there was a way to put the login in a credential file
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[20:30] Action: NyteOwl doesn't mind dialup except if he's somewhere he wan't to download a 500mB file and dialup is all there is heh
[20:30] <Cann0n> yeah
[20:31] <Cann0n> it'd be nice if i could get it to work
[20:31] <dive> dartmouth, there is a way of ssh'ing with no pass - google for 'no password ssh' will bring up a few good links
[20:31] <ananke> dartmouth : uhmm, if it's ssh, i assume you could use keys
[20:31] <dartmouth> dive: i dont want to use host based access
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[20:32] <dive> it would use key files in ~/.ssh
[20:32] <dartmouth> yeah. no.
[20:32] <dive> so whatever the IP should work
[20:32] <ananke> yeah no what?
[20:32] <dive> or do you mean host name is a problem?
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[20:33] <Cann0n> NyteOwl, thanks for the help
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[20:33] <Cann0n> only system we have that can get online at the house is my dads winders machine
[20:33] <dartmouth> i see for sshfs there is an option for reading password from stdin...
[20:34] <ananke> yeah. nothing as safe as clear text password
[20:34] <dive> dartmouth, you could do that with an expect script
[20:34] <Cann0n> i miss slackware :'(
[20:35] <slava_dp> Cann0n, well supposedly slackware misses you too :)
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[20:35] <Cann0n> :)
[20:35] <dartmouth> ananke: per the sshfs man, if im reading it correctly, it's "echo password | sshfs user@host -o password_stdin"?
[20:35] <Cann0n> nix_chix, you here?
[20:35] <ananke> dartmouth : i wouldn't know, i don't use sshfs. however, the point remains: storing your password in clear text is never a good idea
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[20:36] <dartmouth> someone would need root access or physical access to even be able to read the file.
[20:36] <dartmouth> i mean you'd have to steal my box
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[20:36] <ananke> and you'd be giving them your password
[20:36] <dartmouth> i'd have bigger problems
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[20:36] <Cann0n> slava_dp, you have no idea lol. all i do in my free time at home is hack the kernel and look at the same few porn pictures i have seen 100s of times   :(
[20:37] <slava_dp> dartmouth, storing the key is a way better idea than your password.
[20:37] <thrice`> agreed
[20:37] <dive> yep
[20:38] <ananke> that makes 4 suggestions for using ssh keys. is there any particular reason you don't want to use that _valid_ solution?
[20:38] <dive> dartmouth, why you can't you use host based access?
[20:38] <dive> -you
[20:38] <pirving> how to I make firefox emulate internet explorer?
[20:38] <pirving> or spoof
[20:38] <Cann0n> ...
[20:38] <slava_dp> ROFL
[20:38] <dive> pirving, look up user agent switcher
[20:39] <dive> it's an extension
[20:39] <Cann0n> pireau, kenqueror has a feature you may like
[20:39] <NyteOwl> Cann0n: np, hope you get it working
[20:39] <Cann0n> i guess i need wvdial
[20:40] <Cann0n> is that in /extra?
[20:40] Nick change: kethry_ -> kethry
[20:40] <NyteOwl> bbiab
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[20:40] <dive> if I ever bump into the person responsible for the idea of making winmodems...
[20:40] <nooper> hehe
[20:40] <slava_dp> Cann0n, it's on SBo :)
[20:41] <dartmouth> sweet.
[20:41] <slava_dp> dive, losemodems are more popular these days ;)
[20:41] <Cann0n> yeah i know. its building now
[20:41] <Cann0n> dive, agreed
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[20:43] <pirving> ok, I'm spoofing ie7.  Now it asks for active X
[20:43] <dive> it would
[20:43] <slava_dp> ROFL
[20:43] <slava_dp> thought so
[20:43] <Cann0n> dive, if i ...
[20:43] <Cann0n> run ie under wine
[20:43] <dive> Cann0n, we could take turns
[20:44] <Cann0n> it comes with wine
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[20:44] <dive> I'll hold him down for ya
[20:44] <Cann0n> dive, i,ll drive....
[20:44] <dive> pirving, have a look for ies4linux
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[20:44] <dive> if it's still around
[20:44] <Cann0n> bleh modem still not detected
[20:44] Action: slava_dp had a go at ies4linux last fall. it runs but looks just plain horrible.
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[20:45] tuvok302 (i=vircuser@clgrtnt7-port-175.dial.telus.net) left irc: "Wakka Wakka"
[20:45] <dive> that's if you really insist on using ie on a site that sounds like it should be boycotted
[20:45] <Cann0n> i just avoid sites that want ie
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[20:46] <pirving> since when did VMWARE release a free version VMware Player????
[20:46] gabriel (n=gabriel@pc-177-246-47-190.cm.vtr.net) joined ##slackware.
[20:46] <dive> since ages
[20:46] <straterra> a while back
[20:46] <pirving> I've always downloaded the keygen
[20:46] <pirving> is it any good?
[20:46] <Cann0n> vmware has always been free
[20:46] <pirving> the player?
[20:46] <straterra> and you dont need 4 question marks
[20:46] <Cann0n> ?
[20:46] <pirving> no it hasn't
[20:46] <dive> the server isn't
[20:46] <straterra> player has always been free
[20:46] <straterra> server is free too
[20:47] <straterra> workstation, gsx, and esx arent
[20:47] <slava_dp> virtualbox is better
[20:47] <dive> really? last I looked it wasn't
[20:47] <dive> ..server
[20:47] <straterra> server has always been free
[20:47] <straterra> esx hasnt been
[20:47] <slava_dp> free != libre
[20:47] <slava_dp> :(
[20:47] <dive> anyway with qemu and vbox I haven't yet found anything that won't run
[20:48] <straterra> i prefer vmware as it has more features
[20:48] <ananke> slava_dp : how is virtualbox 'better'?
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[20:48] Action: slava_dp prefers free software.
[20:48] MLanden (n=mello@pool-162-84-115-216.norf.east.verizon.net) joined ##slackware.
[20:48] <Cann0n> shit. how do i set up my modem?
[20:49] <pirving> Cann0n I had the same problem is it a winmodem?
[20:49] <Cann0n> yeah
[20:49] <pirving> internal then
[20:49] <Cann0n> its on my ati sound card
[20:49] <pirving> ok gentlemen any thoughts?
[20:49] <MLanden> Good evenin'( or afternoon or mornin' dependin' on where y'are),folks
[20:49] <dive> some usb are also winmodems
[20:49] <Cann0n> yeah
[20:50] <ananke> pirving : on what?
[20:50] <pirving> his problem
[20:50] <pirving> setserial command?
[20:50] <Cann0n> cant find the port
[20:50] <Cann0n> its on IRQ 5 i know
[20:50] <ananke> ohh. his problem. bah.
[20:51] <Cann0n> but the address.... i have no idea
[20:52] <Cann0n> i got ttySx
[20:52] <pirving> 03:01.0 Modem: Intel Corporation FA82537EP 56K V.92 Data/Fax Modem PCI (rev 04)
[20:52] <pirving> how do I set that up?
[20:53] <Cann0n>   #1: ATI IXP Modem rev 1 at 0xd0003400, irq 5
[20:53] <Cann0n> oh
[20:53] <phrag> hi guys
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[20:53] <Cann0n> so itd be setserial /dev/ttyS0 irq 5 port  0xd0003400   ???
[20:54] <jiffypop> it's a good day for america, everybody...and wherever you might be
[20:55] <phrag> when installing slack and it prompts for a keyboard layout, what option is being set? i've already installed and want to change to GB layout in console... shall i just put loadkeys /usr/share/kbd/keymaps/i386/qwerty/uk.map.gz  in rc.local or can i replace what slack install sets somewhere?
[20:55] <MLanden> alrighty
[20:55] <dive> phrag, /etc/rc.d/rc.keymap
[20:55] <Cann0n> phrag,
[20:55] <Cann0n> dive beat me
[20:55] <phrag> awesome, thanks dive =)
[20:55] <dive> np
[20:55] <phrag> and Cann0n =P
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[20:56] <Cann0n> dvorak ftw
[20:56] <phrag> hmm, i have uk.map set in there already, however it's not using GB layout... am i using the wrong one? is UK ukraine or something?
[20:56] <phrag> can't seem to find any called GB
[20:57] <phrag> i thought it was called en_GB but can't see that in /usr/share/kbd/keymaps/i386/qwerty/
[20:57] <slava_dp> Ukraine is UA :-)
[20:57] <Cann0n> i cant use qwerty
[20:58] <dive> en_GB is your locale setting
[20:58] <dive> not a keymap
[20:58] <phrag> strange then.... any british guys care to comment... i miss my £ =P
[20:58] <dive> is this in X?
[20:58] <phrag> no in console
[20:58] <phrag> i've already set gb in xorg.conf
[20:59] <dive> well there isn't a utf8 map that comes with slack I don't think
[20:59] <Cann0n> what would setserial be for that?
[20:59] <dive> I'm using a custom one
[20:59] <phrag> o.0
[20:59] <dive> I can upload it if you want to check it out
[20:59] <phrag> british descrimination! lol
[20:59] <Cann0n> setserial /dev/ttyS0 irq 5 port  0xd0003400  seem n go
[20:59] <dive> one sec
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[21:01] <Cann0n> grrrr
[21:01] <dive> http://www.unrealize.co.uk/scripts/misc
[21:02] <fusss> why was the /srv directory added to slack? is it mandated by some linux standard or was /var/www not good enough?
[21:02] <dive> phrag, that contains the codes € £ etc
[21:02] <Cann0n> i accidentally deleted most of my more-up-to-date scripts
[21:02] Nick change: ricktl -> irritado
[21:03] <slava_dp> fusss, http://www.pathname.com/fhs/
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[21:05] <dive> phrag, you might also want to add 'vt.default_utf8=1' to your appends line in lilo
[21:05] <fusss> slava_dp: i knew it, always an outside force
[21:05] <dive> phrag, and use a font like lat9w-16
[21:05] <phrag> dive: oh thankyou very much, i'll test that out now and get back to you =)
[21:06] <dive> yw
[21:06] <slava_dp> Patrick does a good job complying to various standards. like adding sysv-init folders and other things.
[21:07] <slava_dp> fusss, ^^
[21:07] <Cann0n> cant setserial....
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[21:09] <slava_dp> what's a good name for a script that automatically clicks the mouse on a random position on the screen? is randomclicker.sh a good one?
[21:10] <pirving> hey you know when you first install and you have system mail?  Is that posted somewhere on the web, I accidently deleted it
[21:10] <pirving> Mail from Pat
[21:10] <pirving> on how to config
[21:10] <slava_dp> pirving, reinstall aaa_base :-)
[21:10] <Cann0n> lol
[21:12] <pirving> whats pats email?
[21:12] <pirving> pat@slackware.com
[21:13] <Cann0n> how can i find what port a device is for setserial
[21:13] <phrag> volkerdi@slackware.com
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[21:14] <Cann0n> its on irq5 but i dunno what port
[21:15] <Cann0n> how do i find I/O address?
[21:16] Action: slava_dp doesn't know the port either. and hasn't even tried setting up his built-in modem in the laptop.
[21:16] Action: slava_dp -- sorry :|
[21:16] <Cann0n> yeah... one day you will say SHIT i should have done that
[21:17] <slava_dp> uhh... i usually process things in a fifo order.
[21:17] <Cann0n> yeah me too
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[21:18] <pirving> I just installed vmware, how do I run it?
[21:18] <Cann0n> man vmware
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[21:20] <pirving> it says it's a video driver
[21:20] <pirving> ?
[21:20] <Cann0n> vmware?
[21:20] <pirving> yeah
[21:20] <pirving> svga video driver
[21:20] <Cann0n> did you try just running vmware?
[21:20] <slava_dp> lol
[21:21] <Cann0n> by typing vmware
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[21:21] <slava_dp> i.e. >> how do i ping? oh, just use "ping" :-)
[21:22] <pirving> command not found
[21:22] <pirving> I downloaded the rpm and did a rpm2tgz
[21:22] <nullboy> ...
[21:22] <slava_dp> ...
[21:22] <dive> ...
[21:22] <pirving> should I just do a rpm -i?
[21:22] <pirving> ...
[21:23] <phrag> dive: thankyou very much, your keymap solved my problem =)  i'll have to bug patrick about including that for future... seems it was removed since i last had to use it =P
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[21:23] <Cann0n> lol
[21:23] <dive> ok
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[21:23] <Cann0n> sorry. im a bit annoyed
[21:23] <pirving> rpm -i VMware-Player-2.5.1-126130.i386.rpm
[21:23] <pirving> error: Failed dependencies:
[21:23] <pirving>         /bin/sh is needed by VMware-Player-2.5.1-126130.i386
[21:24] <nullboy> god.
[21:24] <phrag> z0mg lol
[21:24] <Cann0n> ...
[21:24] <Cann0n> rpm
[21:24] <dissociative> anyone has good experience with re-authoring dvds with dvdauthor?
[21:24] <Cann0n> ...
[21:24] <slava_dp> lol
[21:24] <Cann0n> wtf
[21:24] <nullboy> dissociative: i cheat and use k9copy
[21:24] <Cann0n> dude slackbuild.org
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[21:24] <dive> phrag, there some experimental keybinds in there that I added - I wouldn't say it was good enough to include without sorting out
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[21:24] <dissociative> nullboy: I need to add subtitles to a dvd with already existent subs..
[21:24] <dive> it's a bit messy :-)
[21:25] <dissociative> I'm trying but It seems to fail
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[21:25] <nullboy> dissociative: i'm not good enough with tools to know how to help you, i just remove the menus from my own dvds ;)
[21:26] <slava_dp> ##slackware is so much fun at night with you all :-) (it's night here, you know.... )
[21:26] <phrag> dive: ah i see, well i think perhaps pat just forgot this release, as i've never had trouble before using british layout... that did the trick though =)
[21:26] signal11 (i=esteban@host197.quaddro.net) joined ##slackware.
[21:26] <phrag> (having used slack for 12 years) =P
[21:26] <Cann0n> 9 here
[21:26] <nullboy> 42
[21:27] <Cann0n> lol
[21:27] Action: phrag applauds
[21:27] <phrag> nullboy: ! =)
[21:27] <slava_dp> 42? are you like on Saturn?
[21:27] <nullboy> hey phrag!
[21:27] <phrag> you good mate?
[21:27] <nullboy> slava_dp: 42 is the answer to everything
[21:27] <Cann0n> so... how do i find the I/O of devices?
[21:27] <nullboy> phrag: yep, pretty good
[21:27] <dissociative> I dont know if there's a channel for this stuff
[21:27] <Cann0n> modem is lost
[21:28] <phrag> champion =)
[21:28] <pirving> vmware under wine?
[21:28] <pirving> lol
[21:28] <phrag> fear
[21:28] <phrag> Cann0n: as in throughput ?
[21:28] <pirving> all they have is *.rpm and *.bundle for download
[21:29] <pirving> what is a *.bundel?
[21:29] <phrag> i always find gkrellm to be very handy for monitoring certain devices
[21:29] <slava_dp> a bundle is what you need i suppose.
[21:29] Nick change: SmallBaggyBungal -> Gargantua
[21:29] <Cann0n> phrag, as in needed for setserial port 0xXXXXX
[21:30] <phrag> fished about in /proc ?
[21:30] <nullboy> pirving: what the heck are you trying to accomplish?
[21:30] <pirving> I'm trying to install vmware
[21:30] <pirving> vmware player
[21:30] <Gargantua> You guys ever worry that your emails might not get to where they are supposed to if hotmail or any other provider deems it spam?
[21:30] <dive> pirving, which os are you going to install in it?
[21:30] <phrag> Cann0n: have you checked your bios ?
[21:30] <nullboy> Gargantua: always
[21:31] <Cann0n> no
[21:31] <pirving> windows or belenix
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[21:31] <Cann0n> dunno how tbh
[21:31] <nullboy> Gargantua: i've had that happen in business contexts too
[21:31] <phrag> Gargantua: yeah, i refuse to sent to hotmail and blackhole incoming from hotmail =P
[21:31] <Gargantua> It's quite ridicilous.
[21:31] <dive> windows works with qemu, dunno about belenix, qemu is on slackbuilds.org
[21:31] <Gargantua> I'm sure yahoo and google mail have their spam filters.
[21:31] <dive> and so is vbox
[21:31] <Cann0n> im dumb. /proc/ioports
[21:32] <phrag> Gargantua: gmail's are rather effective imho
[21:32] <Gargantua> Still
[21:32] Nick change: irritado -> ricktl
[21:32] <nullboy> if you have cpu virtualization support i'd say try out KVM from SBo and use alienBOB's hardware virtualization with qemu as a guide
[21:32] <Cann0n> dont see my modem in there
[21:32] <phrag> Gargantua: that's what recieve receipts are for i guess =)
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[21:32] <Gargantua> I'm always constantly thinking about what the filter would think of the message
[21:33] <Gargantua> So I try to add a bunch of personal keywords
[21:33] <Gargantua> then I go maybe it searches for that, because spammers do it.
[21:33] <Gargantua> Bah
[21:33] <bird> soup, i was wondering if i could resize my slack partition without destroying data
[21:33] <slava_dp> Gargantua, don't be paranoid.
[21:33] <dive> bird, I did that with gparted live cd
[21:33] <phrag> bird: it's not advised... gparted can do it though.. backup backup backup!
[21:34] <bird> hmm gparted i will go research that thx
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[21:35] <straterra> phrag, do you still have ops?
[21:35] <dive> phrag, btw I have keybinds in there for alt-gr+<a-z> like æéðé etc - if you can think of some good/better binds to use please let know. I might even make a SB and submit it
[21:36] <bird> phrag: does it matter if i'm trying to make it bigger?
[21:37] <nullboy> bird: gparted's liveCD will do what you need but it will take time
[21:37] <nullboy> be ready for a resize to take on the order of hours
[21:37] ##slackware: mode change '+o phrag' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[21:37] <nullboy> (pissibly)
[21:37] <nullboy> possibly**
[21:37] <phrag> straterra: i guess so =)
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[21:38] <straterra> scary
[21:38] <Cann0n> my modem just wont pop up
[21:38] <phrag> straterra: why do you ask ?
[21:38] <dive> did you try levering it with a screwdriver?
[21:38] <bird> nullboy: alright, but is it necessary to backup?
[21:38] <nullboy> bird: of course
[21:38] <nullboy> always backup
[21:39] <phrag> bird: anything you would not like to lose
[21:39] <Cann0n> dive, yeah lol
[21:39] <straterra> just wondering
[21:39] <phrag> bird: /etc /home /boot are always a good start
[21:39] <Cann0n> any ideas anyone?
[21:40] <dive> I need to check out my external modem some time
[21:40] <phrag> straterra: i've not been active lately as i'm in final year of my degree and working like a mule
[21:40] <Cann0n> do i need smap for a winmodem?
[21:40] <Cann0n> smapi
[21:40] <nullboy> bird: i've never had a problem with gparted myself and I have used it many times, never had any data loss. However, others in here *have* had issues
[21:41] <nullboy> we'd be remiss not to tell you to back up
[21:41] <phrag> and punished by the slackware karma gods =P
[21:41] <nullboy> and that's bad!
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[21:43] <bird> nullboy: thx, i dont have anything really importan to backup, but just the amount of time it took me to setup my current configuration, i would be pretty pissed if it i lost it
[21:43] <nullboy> yep
[21:44] <nullboy> at a totally bare minimum you'd probably want /etc and /home
[21:44] <dive> you should be able to fit /etc/ and a few other things on usb stick or cd if it comes to it
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[21:45] <slava_dp> bird, tar -cvf etc.tar.bz2 /etc
[21:45] <slava_dp> bird, tar -cvjf etc.tar.bz2 /etc
[21:45] <slava_dp> :)
[21:45] <jkwood> No need for the j.
[21:45] <nullboy> if you want to bzip it there is
[21:46] <bird> slava_dp, and i just untrar those if i lose data?
[21:46] <slava_dp> bird, yeah
[21:46] <jkwood> Oh, wait... -c... right.
[21:46] Action: jkwood goes back to lurking
[21:46] <nullboy> damn slurker
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[21:47] <Cann0n> do i set it through alsa or something?
[21:47] <Cann0n> i love ati... but this modem = :(
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[21:48] <slava_dp> Cann0n, call 'em and tell 'em they're bastards for releasing winmodem crap :)
[21:48] <Cann0n> yeah
[21:48] <bird> cool thanks everybody i will research gParted and everything you suggested
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[21:48] <Cann0n> it detects it but there is no interface (/dev/ttySx) for it
[21:50] <pirving> whats a good setserial command example
[21:50] <nullboy> pirving: the man page has all the options
[21:50] <Cann0n> setserial /dev/ttyS0 irq 5 port 0x36f6
[21:51] <Cann0n> but... i cant seem to get it to "hook" together
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[21:51] <pirving> root@lucille:/etc/init.d# setserial /dev/ttyS0 port dc00 irq 17 baud_base 115200
[21:51] <pirving>  I get this error
[21:52] <Cann0n> hmmm
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[21:53] <pirving> Cannot set serial info: Device or resource busy
[21:53] <pirving> root@lucille:/etc/init.d# setserial /dev/ttyS1 port dc00 irq 17 baud_base 115200
[21:53] <pirving> Cannot set serial info: Device or resource busy
[21:53] Channel flood from pirving -- kicking
[21:53] <pirving> root@lucille:/etc/init.d# setserial /dev/ttyS2 port dc00 irq 17 baud_base 115200
[21:53] pirving kicked from ##slackware by slackboy: flood
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[21:53] <Cann0n> port needs 0x (hex)
[21:53] <pirving> dc00 is hex I think
[21:53] <Cann0n> needs the 0x1d3d2
[21:53] <Cann0n> 0x
[21:53] <Cann0n> iirc
[21:54] <pirving> hmmm
[21:54] <pirving> so what would port dc00 be?
[21:54] <Cann0n> i dunno dude... im in new territory.
[21:54] <Cann0n> 0xdc00
[21:54] <Cann0n> its just a header
[21:55] <pirving> minicom: cannot open /dev/modem: No such file or directory
[21:55] <pirving> it worked
[21:55] <pirving> but I can't use minicom
[21:56] <nullboy> you need to configure minicom first
[21:57] <nullboy> look in the man page for the setup switch
[21:57] <gwc> exit
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[21:58] <pirving> oh, ok I got it
[21:58] <pirving> now it says the modem is locked
[22:00] tuvok302 (n=vircuser@clgrtnt2-port-100.dial.telus.net) joined ##slackware.
[22:00] <Cann0n> i HATE dealing with this modem bullshit
[22:02] <nullboy> dooodeeedooo we're sorry, your call did no go through. please hang up and try your call again. message AN70
[22:02] <tuvok302> lol.
[22:03] <Cann0n> its lol
[22:04] <Cann0n> well
[22:04] <Prefect> Cann0n, wtf are you using this modem for anyways
[22:04] <nullboy> he's calling home
[22:04] <tuvok302> Maybe he's in the same boat I am.  He's stuck on dial-up out in the middle of no-where
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[22:05] <Cann0n> to get online at home
[22:05] Action: sitwon is sooo happy to finally have his VT510 terminal working
[22:05] <sitwon> just had to share that
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[22:13] <sitwon> uhm.. might be a stupid question but: did Mixxx completely switch from SVN to GIT?
[22:13] <sitwon> err... wrong window
[22:13] <slava_dp> haha
[22:13] <slava_dp> night everyone. only 4 hours left to sleep. see you soon.
[22:14] <dive> nn
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[22:25] <Cann0n> can anyone point me in a proper direction for my modem issue?
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[22:28] <gnubien> Cann0n: some urls to search: http://nopaste.com/p/ad5x9SlUW
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[22:29] <nullboy> Cann0n: if your modem is like the modem in my laptop it's a POS
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[22:29] <nullboy> that is the only component on my whole laptop that does work easily..it works but i have to really dick with it
[22:29] <Cann0n> POS = piece of shit?
[22:29] <nullboy> you know it
[22:29] <Cann0n> lol
[22:29] <nullboy> does/doesn't
[22:30] <nullboy> even the damn fingerprint reader and smart card reader work easier than the crappy modem
[22:30] <Cann0n> my sd card reader and modem are the only things that dont work
[22:31] <gnubien> Cann0n: google ati modem linux?
[22:32] <Cann0n> lol
[22:32] <Cann0n> letmegooglethatforyou.com
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[22:32] <Cann0n> i did that
[22:33] <Cann0n> its a lost device
[22:35] <Cann0n> what is slmodemd?
[22:35] <Cann0n> everything points to that
[22:36] <gnubien> google slmodemd ;P
[22:36] <firebird619> smartlink modem daemon?
[22:37] <gnubien> Cann0n:  http://www.smlink.com/main/index.php
[22:37] <Cann0n> do i need that to use my modem? everywhere i read says thats what they use...
[22:37] <Cann0n> The page cannot be found
[22:37] <Cann0n> ive gotten 4 or 5 dead links from this chat tonight on this topic lol
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[22:38] <gnubien> Cann0n: google make and model of your laptop modem linux ?
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[22:39] <nachox> evening guys
[22:39] Nick change: _ccfreak2k -> ccfreak2k
[22:39] <Cann0n> it shows up as a sud-device under my sound card through alsa
[22:39] <firebird619> evening nachox
[22:39] <nullboy> Cann0n: it's connected to the system over the HDA bus
[22:39] <firebird619> nachox: How are you doing?
[22:39] <nullboy> it's a crappy HDA modem
[22:39] <slack_china> i am at morning..
[22:40] <nachox> cant complain
[22:40] <nullboy> lol
[22:40] <gbonvehim> slack_china can see the future :)
[22:40] <Cann0n> nullboy, so in other words, i should just fuck it, cut it out of my laptop and turn it into drug stash compartment?
[22:40] <slack_china> not future..i at 2009-03-18
[22:41] <nullboy> Cann0n: you'd get more use out of that space that way at least
[22:41] <nullboy> honestly, if you really need a modem you'd better off getting some supported USB modem or an external serial modem
[22:41] <Cann0n> lol
[22:41] <Cann0n> yeah
[22:42] <Prefect> cannon, i've never used this smartlinkd but what's stopping you from just getting it and trying it?
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[22:42] <nullboy> i've gone down this road before and it ended with a sign that said "pay linuxant for a working driver"
[22:42] <nullboy> i even tried to repackage the debian driver
[22:42] <Cann0n> ok. thanks for the advice nullboy (as usual)
[22:43] <Panzer> file server about to come online
[22:45] <gnubien> Cann0n: alsa and smartlink modem  http://www.mail-archive.com/alsa-user@lists.sourceforge.net/msg14247.html
[22:45] <gnubien> Cann0n: search for smartlink modem there
[22:46] <Cann0n> k thx
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[22:57] <Cann0n> im out
[22:57] <Cann0n> nullboy, thx for the advise. c ya next time i get to an AP
[22:57] <nullboy> see ya
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[22:57] <lw0x15> =]
[22:59] <nullboy> does anyone here work in a trans-ocean cable landing NOC?
[22:59] <lw0x15> =o
[22:59] Action: nachox yawns
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[23:00] <nachox> and i do not mean the erlang web browser by yawn
[23:02] <MLanden> Hey,folks ( instead of the usual morning/afternoon/evening greeting )
[23:03] <lw0x15> hi $timeoftheday
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[23:12] <nullboy> are these pieces of crap still used? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Demarc2.JPG
[23:13] <MLanden> Sadly,yes nullboy
[23:13] <nullboy> ugh
[23:13] <nullboy> i remember working on those things and they were a major PITA
[23:14] <MLanden> had to help a buddy upgrade some years back and know they are truly a PITA
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[23:15] <nullboy> who usually is the owner of that part of the demarc equipment? are those demarc blocks installed when the house is built or does the phone company install those and pay for the block?
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[23:15] <MLanden> grey area
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[23:21] <MLanden> nullboy: http://www.broadbandreports.com/faq/7867
[23:22] <nullboy> so it's mine
[23:24] <MLanden> dunno
[23:25] <nullboy> these are the big boys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_exchange_point
[23:25] <nullboy> IXP
[23:26] <MLanden> oh,yeah
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[23:30] <straterra> I'm real bored
[23:31] <lostnhell> then play with slack-current
[23:31] <straterra> I'm IRCing from my phone..I'll pass
[23:32] <dive> can anyone with -current + mplayer try playing a movie in console using '-vo svga' please? I'm getting an error regarding /dev/mem and it asks me if I'm running as root..
[23:32] <dive> links -g seems to work fine
[23:33] <dive> I tried chmod'ing it to a+rw - same thing - does run as root but I don't want to have to su just to watch a vid
[23:33] <kitche> dive: think it's a known issue since your not hte only one that brought that up
[23:33] <dive> hmm
[23:33] <kitche> maybe nullboy or nachox said something it was one with a n in their name
[23:34] <dive> n<tab>
[23:34] <dive> :)
[23:34] <dive> perhaps mplayer needs suid root without the kernel module?
[23:35] <nullboy> i did
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[23:35] <nullboy> -vo would play sound for me (using the vesa fb drivers) -vo svga would play in 8bit color
[23:35] <nullboy> then is hardlocked
[23:36] <nullboy> it*
[23:36] <dive> hmm
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[23:41] <dive> picture seems ok - using vesa driver
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[23:46] <hitest> celebrating tonight
[23:47] pupit (n=p@91.150.106.242) joined ##slackware.
[23:47] <hitest> locked into my last 5 years of my mortgage
[23:47] <hitest> beers
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[23:51] <nullboy> sweet
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[23:52] <hitest> yeah:)
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[23:58] <slack_china> i want ask a question about kde 4!!
[23:58] <jkwood> Good for you.
[23:59] <hitest> :)
[23:59] <slack_china> at my desktop i scroll my mouse middle key ..it switch desktop .i don't want it
[23:59] Nick change: NaCl -> Spanish_Inquisit
[00:00] --- Wed Mar 18 2009