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[00:05] <skibur> :)
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[00:06] <ejm> hey guys, I installed openoffice.org, and I can't use my arrow keys or the backspace key
[00:07] <ejm> Do any of you know how to fix it? Otherwise I'll have to use ubuntu or something as mundane. I like slackware a lot more.
[00:08] <stitchman> did you use the slackbuilds from slackbuilds.org?
[00:09] <ejm> no, I grabbed it from openoffice's website.
[00:09] <ejm> Should I uninstall it and then grab it from slackbuild?
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[00:09] <SharkBait> Would be the best option yes.
[00:10] <ejm> ok
[00:10] <stitchman> yep
[00:10] <ejm> I'll try that. Koffice doesn't import the powerpoint/word documents correctly at all.
[00:11] <stitchman> ive never tried opening a powerpoint with impress, i wonder how well that goes
[00:11] <twolf> does fine most of the time\
[00:12] <Gargantua> doesn't office work with wine?
[00:12] <ejm> yeah, I can't tell a bit of difference between oo.o and ms office
[00:12] <ejm> yeah, it does. but you need a cd.
[00:12] <ejm> or get the install files off of it. but that sort of defeats the purpose of using linux, or open source anyway.
[00:13] <stitchman> sometimes when my professors make a .doc and try to make it all fancy with images and such, OO butchers the page a bit, but I dont blame OO really
[00:13] <Gargantua> ejm, it depends on what your "purpose" in using linux is.
[00:13] <Gargantua> some people use it for a moral or financial stand point, others don't.
[00:13] <ejm> true. i didn't mean to sound like RMS there.
[00:15] <stitchman> i use it for performance since i get a new computer every 10 years or so, but i get older computers every 6 months heh
[00:15] <ejm> I've realized I've saved a lot of money using linux on older systems though.
[00:15] <ejm> yeah, i'm one of those people who inherate computers. it'll be nice this spring to build my first system from scratch.
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[00:20] Action: edman007 takes his initials back from ejm 
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[00:22] <skibur> if I were to shrink the Slackware book 3.0, can I see it  as a pocket size manual?
[00:22] <skibur> never-mind
[00:22] <skibur> dumb question
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[00:24] <ejm> what? you took your initials back that i didn't steal?
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[00:27] Action: BP{k} didn't know there was a 3.0
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[00:31] <skibur> hum....
[00:31] <skibur> I can't kill a process as root
[00:32] <jkwood> kill -9.
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[00:33] <jkwood> For real.  What's with all the BX users today?
[00:33] <nullboy> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4
[00:33] <skibur> lol
[00:33] <rob0> rickrolled!!
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[00:37] <euzao> for a desktop install
[00:37] <euzao> with everything
[00:37] <euzao> plus some little games
[00:37] <euzao> how much space do I need?
[00:37] <nullboy> nope
[00:37] <BP{k}> euzao: about 5GB give or take
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[00:41] <hba> http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=_y36fG2Oba0
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[00:42] <rob0> rickrolled AGAIN!!
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[00:43] <nullboy> the packets would travel faster in cars lmao
[00:45] <BP{k}> euzao: 5.1G    /home/sbchroot/slackware-12.2
[00:47] <dive> it's too early for that kind of music
[00:47] Action: dive is insomniatic again
[00:48] <BP{k}> dive: join the club, we have pillows
[00:48] <dive> yeah, well i got cusions but it don't help much
[00:48] <dive> /dev/root              15G  7.0G  6.9G  51% /
[00:49] <BP{k}> dive: ah cheer up .. the sun comes up at 8am
[00:49] <dive> got 2GB worth of *something* in there...
[00:49] <dive> true
[00:49] <dive> thats when I go to bed ;P
[00:49] <hba> ok, time to give kde-4.2 a try :)
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[00:50] <Neo-Zionist> how do i relink an executable?
[00:50] <Neo-Zionist> Symbol `SSL_ImplementedCiphers' has different size in shared object, consider re-linking
[00:51] <BP{k}> dive: heh, I try to be a little bit earlier then that .. alothough frequently fail :)
[00:51] <nullboy> did you recompile openssl?
[00:51] <Neo-Zionist> no
[00:51] <nullboy> what is displaying that?
[00:51] <Neo-Zionist> a modified mozilla build
[00:51] <redtricycle> s
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[00:52] <redtricycle> How do I make it so that new folders in a directory have permissions 770?
[00:53] <Neo-Zionist> new ones?
[00:53] <redtricycle> yes
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[00:53] <Neo-Zionist> ah there is a way to set that
[00:54] <Neo-Zionist> so mkdir automatically does it
[00:54] <snorks> ffs
[00:54] <redtricycle> Well, I don't make mkdir to automatically do it
[00:54] <redtricycle> I just want it done under a directory
[00:54] <BP{k}> mkdir(1)
[00:54] <Neo-Zionist> chmod ?
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[00:54] <snorks> rofl i can now tell tcpdump output if it has a windows xp sp2 fingerprint
[00:54] <hba> find $folder -type d -exec chmod 770 {} \;
[00:54] <snorks> <mss 1460,sackOK,timestamp 518611 0,nop,wscale 6>
[00:55] <Neo-Zionist> find $folder -type d -exec chmod 770 '{}' \;
[00:55] <redtricycle> Okay, I'll explain more
[00:55] <Neo-Zionist> according to documentation
[00:55] <redtricycle> So, my brother is on a windows machine
[00:55] <redtricycle> and I have him hooked up to a folder on my box
[00:55] <redtricycle> using sftpdrive
[00:55] <redtricycle> when he makes new files, in a windows environment
[00:55] <redtricycle> they get a rw-r--r-- permissions
[00:55] <redtricycle> and his directories are
[00:55] <BP{k}> redtricycle: there really isn't a way, either use mkdir -m, chmod afterwards. Or set a umask (but that will then work for *ALL* dirs/files created, so that is not really what you are looking for.
[00:55] <redtricycle> rwx-r-xr-x
[00:56] <redtricycle> I see, if there's no way, then that was the answer I was looking for
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[00:56] <sn2190> Can someone please tell me why I get the following error when trying to install Lilo to MBR?: http://i42.tinypic.com/20ftd37.png
[00:56] <sn2190> I would really appreciate any help
[00:56] <redtricycle> < Neo-Zionist> find $folder -type d -exec chmod 770 '{}' \
[00:56] <redtricycle> I'll just set that up in a cron
[00:57] <Motoko-chan> sn2190, it means the installer can't find /dev/hdc
[00:57] <Neo-Zionist> sn2190, i think one of the consoles logs errors
[00:57] <sn2190> but the MBR should be installed in sda
[00:57] <Neo-Zionist> ctrl + alt + f2 - 12
[00:57] <sn2190> thats where I have installed linux
[00:57] <BP{k}> sn2190: can you pastebin your lilo.conf and fdisk -l
[00:57] <Motoko-chan> You might have an odd path (like the HP/Compaq SmartArray cards) and need to edit manually.
[00:57] <sn2190> yeah hang on
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[00:59] <sn2190> http://pastebin.com/m7d01fd72
[00:59] <sn2190> ^the lilo.conf for my system
[00:59] <Neo-Zionist> change dev root to hda?
[01:00] <Neo-Zionist> /dev/hda
[01:00] <BP{k}> sn2190: "ls -l /dev/root" shows what?
[01:00] <sn2190> do you want me to post fdisk -l also?
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[01:00] <sn2190> hang on BP
[01:01] <BP{k}> sn2190: ls -l /dev/root first please
[01:01] <sn2190> ok
[01:01] <sn2190> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2009-01-27 18:45 /dev/root -> sda2
[01:01] <BP{k}> sn2190: well look at line 8: boot=/dev/hdc <- thats why
[01:01] <sn2190> I have set up swap on sda1
[01:01] <Neo-Zionist> A True Hermaphrodite Chimera Resulting from Embryo Amalgamation after in Vitro Fertilization.htm
[01:01] <Neo-Zionist> lol
[01:02] <sn2190> oh i will change it
[01:02] <sn2190> lol
[01:02] <sn2190> i hope it works
[01:02] <sn2190> thanks
[01:02] <BP{k}> sn2190: and you want to probably change /dev/root to whatever that points :)
[01:02] <sn2190> what command do i use to do that
[01:03] <sn2190> sorry i am a newb
[01:03] <BP{k}> well you already told use that /dev/root points to the /dev/sda2
[01:03] <sn2190> right
[01:04] <BP{k}> so just change line 69.
[01:04] <sn2190> ok
[01:04] <BP{k}> and don't forget to run /sbin/lilo after you made any changes
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[01:06] <rob0> 42
[01:07] <BP{k}> 6 * *
[01:07] <BP{k}> 6 * 9
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[01:10] <euzao> BP{k} thank you
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[01:11] <BP{k}> euzao: no problem.
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[01:15] <Neo-Zionist> can i start an Xrfb server from rc.local
[01:15] <Neo-Zionist> Xvfb
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[01:16] <nullboy> rm -rf to 107GB is a pita
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[01:17] <Neo-Zionist> easier to recreate a filesytem over it if its all the data
[01:17] <nullboy> it's a 750GB volume
[01:17] <Rat409> nullboy: no doubt
[01:18] <nullboy> i can't just go formatting the rest of the data
[01:18] <Rat409> no
[01:19] <Cann0n> why notL
[01:19] Nick change: X3ko -> Ch4ien
[01:20] Nick change: Ch4ien -> X3ko
[01:20] <nullboy> because 107 is only ~14% of all the space used on there
[01:20] <Cann0n> you know, i wish i had gotten a longboard instead of my first computer
[01:21] <nullboy> i blew my knee out in head high surf last week
[01:21] <Neo-Zionist> you'd be dead
[01:21] <nullboy> please.
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[01:21] <Cann0n> i meant a 38+" skateboard
[01:22] <Cann0n> but a surfboard would be awesome too
[01:22] <Cann0n> head high are perfect size waves imo
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[01:22] <nullboy> i dropped into a decent sized one and it started to barrel but it heaved when the backwash came back out.
[01:22] <SharkBait> 6 Beaches on the central coast of australia have been closed due to regular shark sightings :(
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[01:23] <nullboy> my rear foot slipped off and my front foot stayed planted :(
[01:23] <Cann0n> i ont have a surfboard. yet. :( i just bum my uncles. yay economy!
[01:23] <Cann0n> aww i picture that
[01:23] <Neo-Zionist> gimpboy
[01:23] <Cann0n> did a split at the knees?
[01:23] <Cann0n> tried*
[01:24] <nullboy> left knee popped
[01:24] <Rat409> ouch
[01:24] <nullboy> i can walk on it again now but it's still really loose
[01:25] <nullboy> it almost made me want to try longboards...but not quite ;)
[01:25] <Neo-Zionist> make a roller suit
[01:26] <Cann0n> my right knee is bad. osgood schlatters real bad...
[01:26] <nullboy> well i had a full 4 mm suit on so that actually gives you a little extra support
[01:26] <Cann0n> i love longboard (skate)
[01:26] <Cann0n> ah
[01:27] <nullboy> hey SharkBait
[01:27] <nullboy> http://home.pacbell.net/morticus/board/
[01:27] <Cann0n> yeah. ive only hit 3 or 4 footers
[01:27] <lw0x15_> morning people
[01:27] <nullboy> my board is from coolangatta
[01:28] <Cann0n> you should check out longboard dancing
[01:28] <Neo-Zionist> if i had been idle
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[01:28] <Neo-Zionist> now would be  agreat time to say WHAT DOES THAT AHVE TO DO WITH SLACKWARE HUUUH HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
[01:28] <Neo-Zionist> but i wasnt lurking :(
[01:28] <Cann0n> thats a cool board. too small for my taste
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[01:28] <nullboy> it's a 6'2" and rides like a Ferrari
[01:29] <nullboy> extremely touchy
[01:29] <Neo-Zionist> running MJ12 node can eat up 10 gigs of downstream in a day
[01:29] <Neo-Zionist> even capped at 128k
[01:29] <Neo-Zionist> or so it seems
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[01:30] <Neo-Zionist> MY COCK!!!!!!!111111
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[01:30] <nullboy> that person had no control
[01:31] <Rat409> nope
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[01:34] <Cann0n> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06yS9UdiNOQ
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[01:40] <thumbs> so KDE 4.2 is deemed stable now?
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[01:41] <nullboy> it's still in testing/ on -current
[01:41] <Cann0n> has kde ever been deemed stable? har har!
[01:49] <CaptObviousman> does sshd_config not have an Include directive?
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[01:54] <hiptobecubic> this seems quiet tonight
[01:55] <nullboy> he Moon is Waxing Crescent (4% of Full)
[01:55] <nullboy> only 4%
[01:55] <nullboy> that's why
[01:55] <dive> Today is Pungenday, the 28th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3175
[01:56] <dive> for that matter
[01:56] <hiptobecubic> oh of course
[01:56] <hiptobecubic> Pungenday.
[01:56] <dive> why does it always seem to be Pungenday?
[01:57] <dive> must be a midweek crisis
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[02:10] <agentc0re> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2172612.ece
[02:10] <agentc0re> ..  Idiocracy comes to mind again.
[02:11] <nullboy> idianarchy
[02:11] <CaptObviousman> for a movie as stupid as that, it was quite poignant
[02:11] <jkwood> It was.
[02:11] <CaptObviousman> I suspect that most people didn't realize they were laughing at carictures of themselves
[02:12] <CaptObviousman> it's always the OTHER guy who's a retard, not you
[02:12] <jkwood> I actually rank it among my favorite movies because of the message.
[02:13] <Rat409> damn,wonder if it had rabies ? :P
[02:14] <agentc0re> That guy should have just been shot.  When someone thinks it's a good idea to have sex with a raccoon, they are worthless to society.
[02:14] <Rat409> double jeopardy lol
[02:15] <spook> hahahah
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[02:26] <CaptObviousman> Ruthven: I see you
[02:28] Action: Ruthven lurks, and stuff
[02:28] <CaptObviousman> kinda late, ain't it? Don't you have class?
[02:28] <CaptObviousman> or is it all cancelled tomorrow due to the ice storm?
[02:28] <Ruthven> yeah, weather ftw
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[02:44] <The-Croupier> greetings to the slackworld ;)
[02:44] <dive> morning
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[02:46] <The-Croupier> how are you doing this fine day dive
[02:46] <dive> not bad thanks, u?
[02:47] <dive> BP{k}, still awake?
[02:48] <nullboy> i have two windows fresh installs to do tomorrow
[02:49] <nullboy> that means beer
[02:49] <dive> easy money eh?
[02:50] <dive> fresh installs are always nice to do
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[02:55] <The-Croupier> i have two windows cleanups ( and NO i cannot install anything else apart from windows) images help alot though
[02:55] <The-Croupier> nullboy: images? or cd install
[02:55] <nullboy> cd installs
[02:55] <nullboy> dive: yeah i flat rate it
[02:55] <The-Croupier> nullboy have a laptop next to you ;)
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[02:56] <nullboy> yep
[02:56] <dive> it is nice to see an os working before all the craplogy gets downloaded and installed on it
[02:56] <The-Croupier> fresh installs get boring after a while
[02:56] <Rat409> take a sandwich :P
[02:56] <The-Croupier> and a nice 6ft blonde ;)
[02:57] <dive> 6ft?
[02:57] <dive> need steps
[02:57] <nullboy> i'm only 5'7"
[02:57] <nullboy> she'd be huge
[02:57] <dive> not horizontally
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[02:57] <nullboy> lol
[02:59] <dive> I used to have a hacked windows ME disk that someone had made an unattended install script for. Problem is though it's probably better to be seen to be doing something
[02:59] <agentc0re> why would you need steps, she wouldn't have to necessarily be standing :P
[03:01] <chopp> man, you know your bored when your searching /view/index.shtml on google. :^)
[03:01] <dive> ok we need some good google searches
[03:02] <The-Croupier> or read the google manual... its got some nice parameters that help ;)
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[03:02] Action: The-Croupier always reads them and forgets about it in seconds :( bad bad memory
[03:03] Action: The-Croupier wishes there could be memory updates in humans
[03:03] <agentc0re> i know what could make it interesting.  What is that game called where it has a lot of blank spots and requires you to fill in noun's, verb's, etc..?  We could find an online game like that and search whatever we pick goes in the blanks :D
[03:04] <dive> dammit cam no good for elinks
[03:04] <LSD`> r/win 26
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[03:07] <agentc0re> lol, dictionary word of the day: wanton: behaving lewdly
[03:07] <agentc0re> I thought it was something you eat and could optionally have creme cheese in them ;)
[03:07] <dive> none of your wanton behviour my lad [ in bed ]
[03:07] <dive> lol
[03:07] <Rat409> night all
[03:07] <Urchlay> those 2 definitions are not mutuallty exclusive...
[03:07] <euzao> do you know a good tutorial for postinstall?
[03:07] <euzao> I`m a newbie
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[03:08] <dive> euzao, did you read the slackbook?
[03:08] <dive> and the slackwiki
[03:08] <euzao> dive, where?
[03:08] <dive> in the topic
[03:09] <dive> of the channel, type /topic
[03:09] <euzao> ahh I see
[03:11] <dive> yeah wanton with a creme cheese filling does sound nice round about now
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[03:11] <agentc0re> dive: agreed.
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[03:17] <Urchlay> ...after she's had her fill of being wanton
[03:17] <Urchlay> she'll be wantoff?
[03:17] <agentc0re> hah hah
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[03:19] <The-Croupier> anyone knows to suggest a nice irc.web.form/aplet
[03:19] <The-Croupier> applet
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[03:21] Action: Old_Fogie waves hello to all the ##slackwarians
[03:21] Action: firebird619 waves to Old_Fogie
[03:21] <Old_Fogie> :)
[03:21] <dive> google just isn't funny anymore - I remember at college I was researching the law of tort and googling for 'tort' came up with loads of hardcore porn sites - not anymore though
[03:21] Action: dive waves at Old_Fogie 
[03:21] Action: The-Croupier waves hello to Old_Fogie
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[03:22] <The-Croupier> dive: those were happy times
[03:22] <dive> yep
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[03:23] <Old_Fogie> still happens, like I always say "all links lead to porn"
[03:23] <Urchlay> The-Croupier: I just ran into a nice IRC web interface, helped a guy set it up, a couple months ago... and can't remember the damn name :(
[03:23] <Old_Fogie> dont care what I'm looking for, I end up looking at it later on :)
[03:24] <Urchlay> ah, twas this: http://cgiirc.org/
[03:25] <Urchlay> even though it's web-based, the gui is surprisingly like a standard IRC client
[03:25] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: but it's in Perl Language :(
[03:26] <Urchlay> eh, so? even if you hate perl, shouldn't stop you from running apps written in it
[03:26] <The-Croupier> Urchlay: is it any configurable??? and could i be able to find the source
[03:26] <Urchlay> The-Croupier: yeah, it's open source
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[03:27] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: But I love haking source code and perl will be my Limit then to not care about this soft :(
[03:27] <Urchlay> The-Croupier: really it's intended for you to install & configure it on your own server, for your own (or your users') use
[03:27] <The-Croupier> Urchlay: fantastic ill give it go
[03:27] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: aw, come on, perl's not *that* hard to figure out
[03:28] <The-Croupier> i dont know perl, no language very well for that matter.. but i can easily adapt ;)
[03:28] <The-Croupier> Urchlay thank you
[03:28] <SharkBait> Programming perl third edition = love
[03:28] <Urchlay> I mean, if you already know C, bourne shell, awk, and sed (good UNIXey roots there)... perl is just a conglomeration of those
[03:29] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: I have no time for this I am a specialist in PHP/C so I can't eat another languages
[03:29] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: ah. I'm a language junkie... I know a little bit about a lot of them, and if I'm a specialist at all it's in C and perl
[03:29] <The-Croupier> Urchlay, i know a little bit of all the stuff you mentioned ;)
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[03:30] <The-Croupier> ill try it over the weekend, if things stay this way
[03:30] <euzao> NVIDIA driver is failing to compile
[03:30] <euzao> why??
[03:30] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: so what if you rewrite the same code in C :P
[03:30] Action: dive just hacks around blindly until something clicks (usually the kernel panicing)
[03:31] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: the same code as what? CGI:IRC? you could... I'd rather be lazy and use perl (or PHP even) for web stuff
[03:31] <nullboy> euzao: you need to give us more than that
[03:31] Action: The-Croupier loves "kernel panic" even if its been a while it re-happened
[03:31] <dive> --- 8< ---- cut here ----
[03:31] <euzao>    make[4]: *** [/tmp/selfgz7625/NVIDIA-Linux-x86-96.43.07-pkg1/usr/src/nv/nv.o
[03:31] <euzao>    ] Error 1
[03:31] <euzao>    make[3]: *** [_module_/tmp/selfgz7625/NVIDIA-Linux-x86-96.43.07-pkg1/usr/src
[03:31] Channel flood from euzao -- kicking
[03:31] <euzao>    /nv] Error 2
[03:31] <euzao>    make[2]: *** [sub-make] Error 2
[03:31] euzao kicked from ##slackware by slackboy: flood
[03:31] <The-Croupier> euzao:sometimes you just have to use the internet to compile
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[03:31] <euzao>    make[1]: *** [module] Error 1
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[03:32] <Urchlay> euzao: the actual compile error will be above the error from make
[03:32] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: LOL ok I forgot that It was for web stuff :P
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[03:32] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: I know one psychpathic individual who writes entire dynamic web sites in shell script
[03:33] <Shingoshi> Ever since I upgraded my KDE4 to 4.1.96, I keep getting really weird output in my konsole text.
[03:33] <Urchlay> the one he showed me was a photo gallery (with user logins and uploads)... amazingly, it worked pretty well
[03:33] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: lol it's amazing
[03:33] <dive> Shingoshi, got any custom functions in .bashrc or .bash_profile?
[03:34] <dive> or custom PS1's?
[03:34] <Old_Fogie> Is this "debian" only ? CVE-2008-5983 ?
[03:34] <Shingoshi> I don't think so.
[03:34] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: but it's not important so he lost his time :P
[03:34] <Shingoshi> I'll check and see.
[03:34] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: no, he got paid to do it
[03:34] <euzao> Urchlay, that is weird
[03:34] <dive> try mv'ing your .bashrc and .bash_profile and see if it still does it
[03:35] <Slackaveli> Urchlay:  :s
[03:35] <Slackaveli> anyway
[03:35] <Shingoshi> I don't have either one in /home
[03:35] <nullboy> http://web.nvd.nist.gov/view/vuln/search?execution=e1s2
[03:35] <nullboy> if anyone cares
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[03:36] <Old_Fogie> nullboy, doesn't open for me here
[03:36] <Old_Fogie> :(
[03:37] <nullboy> the pasted link works for me
[03:37] <Urchlay> yeah, it seems to depend on a cookie or something, I had to use the form to search for it, and the result has the same URL as you pasted...
[03:37] <nullboy> k
[03:37] <Old_Fogie> pastebin your cookie :)
[03:37] <nullboy> i was just about to type that
[03:37] <Old_Fogie> hahah
[03:37] <Urchlay> Summary: Untrusted search path vulnerability in the PySys_SetArgv API function in Python before 2.6 prepends an empty string to sys.path when the argv[0] argument does not contain a path separator, which might allow local users to execute arbitrary code via a Trojan horse Python file in the current working directory.
[03:38] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, yeah that's the one I mean
[03:38] <The-Croupier> nullboy it said in red letter that it maps here http://nvd.nist.gov/cwe.cfm
[03:38] <Old_Fogie> is that debian only? since debian referenced below?
[03:38] <The-Croupier> is it the same one
[03:38] <Urchlay> I don't think so. I think it just happens to have been mentioned on a debian mailing list
[03:38] Action: Old_Fogie isn't used to seeing the word "trojan horse" and *nix applications 
[03:38] <Old_Fogie> together
[03:38] <nullboy> we have some nasty ones
[03:38] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, ah ok ty
[03:39] <nullboy> but they usually are rootkit setups
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[03:39] <Old_Fogie> I tell ya what, I feel bad for the "bind" devs.  Darn near every time I open up my liferea and look at the CVE rss feed, bind's got another exploit in some way shape from.
[03:40] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, see all the apps that affects... the python... heh, that's like a full gnome rebuild here, ugh.
[03:40] <The-Croupier> nullboy, where can one find out about those? protection measures
[03:41] <The-Croupier> searched the site for "slackware" and got this only 17records http://web.nvd.nist.gov/view/vuln/search?execution=e1s2
[03:42] <Urchlay> Old_Fogie: really? unless python 2.6 is completely incompatible with 2.5, upgrading python ought to be fine
[03:42] <The-Croupier> and they are all old, nothing for slack11 and above
[03:43] <Urchlay> I mean it's a scripting language. The scripts don't have to be changed when you upgrade the interpreter
[03:43] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, well I'm not sure to be honest, I mean, I build everything "--enable-shared" and "--disable-static" and gnome/gnome-apps can be really really finicky.
[03:43] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, for example, if I upgrade sqlite a 0.1 version bump... gnome is DOA.
[03:44] <Urchlay> (or are you talking about apps that link the interpreter as a library? Depends on whether the new version's C API is compatible with the old one)
[03:44] <Urchlay> sqlite is primarily a library
[03:44] <The-Croupier> nullboy, could you help being up to date with slack-security apart the mailing list?
[03:45] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, oh I see what you're saying
[03:45] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, yeah I'll have to give it a test build and see from there.
[03:45] <Urchlay> yeah
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[03:46] <Urchlay> another idea, use ldd on various gnome binaries, see if any of them are linked to libpython.so
[03:46] Action: Old_Fogie is really thinking of going thru the ~1000 buildscripts s/--disable-static/--enable-static
[03:48] <Urchlay> find . -name \*.SlackBuild | xargs perl -i.bak -pe 's/--disable-static/--enable-static/;'
[03:48] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, one step ahead I use requiredbuilder so it's all dumped into mysql :)
[03:48] <Urchlay> ah, ok, even easier than ldd + grep
[03:48] <Old_Fogie> yes/no ... I'm still working on my relations
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[03:49] <Old_Fogie> meaning, I have to do a package for /usr/bin and then /usr/sbin
[03:49] <Slackaveli> when we will substitute Perl With php in bash scripting :S ?
[03:49] <Old_Fogie> heh, haven't gotten it quite right just yet to query both /usr/bin/* and /usr/sbin/* heh
[03:49] <Old_Fogie> so it's 2 queries, but I'm getting there
[03:49] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: "we" won't.... but you can, right now
[03:50] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: in fact I'm curious to know what the PHP equivalent of that perl command line even is
[03:50] <Urchlay> (not been using PHP long enough to know all the tricks/shortcuts)
[03:50] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: PHP is more than just a script language
[03:50] <Urchlay> yes, I know what PHP is
[03:50] <agentc0re> whats the benefit of shared vrs static library's?
[03:50] <Slackaveli> it's do everything, it's cover 90 % of orieted object programing theory
[03:51] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: yes, perl does the same, you know :)
[03:51] <Slackaveli> Urchlay:  is perl has a namespace notion for example ? :)
[03:52] <Urchlay> agentc0re: if you're running 4 programs that all use the same library... if they all use shared libs, then only one copy of the library has to be in memory (if they're all using static, 4 copies...)
[03:52] <Slackaveli> I don't think so the developement of php is very fast than any other languages
[03:52] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: yes.
[03:52] <Slackaveli> :S
[03:52] <cormoran> Is there a way to know what drivers (not only modules) are used by a disk (using /sys, modalias, ..., but not lsmod)
[03:53] <agentc0re> Urchlay: Ah, makes sense.
[03:53] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: in perl, namespaces are called "packages"
[03:54] <Slackaveli> Urchlay:  you have to see what I am talking about : http://blog.agoraproduction.com/index.php?/archives/47-PHP-Namespaces-Part-1-Basic-usage-gotchas.html
[03:54] <Slackaveli> I am talking about a high new notion in oriented  programing language
[03:55] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: that looks more similar to C++ than perl does (which doesn't make it all that new...)
[03:56] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: of course but in OOP context
[03:56] <Slackaveli> :)
[03:56] <Urchlay> eh, classes in C++ are definitely "OOP context" you know
[03:57] <Urchlay> perl's OOP stuff uses the "package" keyword (which does about what that "namespace" keyword does, in the doc you linked to)
[03:57] <Slackaveli> ok
[03:57] <Urchlay> I'm not knocking PHP, mind you, it's a useful tool
[03:57] <Urchlay> but so is perl
[03:58] <Slackaveli> perl will never concurrence Java world
[03:58] <Slackaveli> but PHP can do that
[03:58] <Urchlay> I have no idea what that sentence even means :)
[03:59] <Slackaveli> the big programs was wrote in Java (J2EE, JSP..)
[03:59] <Slackaveli> and the only concurrence for this programs come from PHP and C#
[03:59] <Urchlay> agentc0re: another nice thing about shared libraries: if there's a security vulnerability discovered in a shared library, you only have to upgrade the one copy of the shared lib (all programs that use it, will use the new version). With static libs, you have to upgrade the lib, then recompile all programs that use it (and hope you don't forget one...)
[04:00] <Slackaveli> so perl will be never used as a real  OOP
[04:00] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: what do you mean by "concurrence" in that sentence? (sorry, I really don't get it)
[04:00] <Slackaveli> maybe for automating administration task like in bash
[04:01] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: are you describing something like Jython, only using PHP+Java instead of Python+Java?
[04:01] <Slackaveli> I am far away from this context
[04:02] <Urchlay> OOP isn't an end in & of itself you know... it's just another tool, another paradigm to use, it isn't the only valid or useful one
[04:02] <Slackaveli> I am figuring PHP in real world of OOP
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[04:02] <Urchlay> eh, but if you're addicted to objects, perl has those too, you know
[04:02] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: but is the most used by the biggest companies
[04:02] <agentc0re> Oh okay, so shared seems to be the preferred way.  Why would you want to do a static over a shared though?  IE: Old_Fogie seemed like he would need to do a lot of recompiling if he upgraded to a different python version, but couldn't you just have both version with shared libs?  maybe i'm missing a bigger picture.
[04:03] <Slackaveli> there is a handred of Programing language they can do the same stuff but there are not used all
[04:03] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: popularity doesn't make it better... Microsoft OSes are most used by the biggest companies, yet we know Linux is better?
[04:03] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: it's not the same road
[04:04] <Slackaveli> we talk about programing languages
[04:04] <Urchlay> agentc0re: I'm not really sure what Old_Fogie did with his gnome compiles, it does sound to me like he shouldn't have to recompile everything
[04:04] <Old_Fogie> agentc0re, well from what I've been told, Slackware uses --disable-static to "save" disk/disc space, as it's an extra binary if you will, so we'd need more iso's, more work to fit pax into iso's on release time, etc.  And more bandwith, and more hard drive sace.
[04:04] <Slackaveli> and perl and PHP are open source
[04:04] <Slackaveli> but 90 % of people choose PHP for many reasons
[04:04] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, 11 apps use the usr/lib/libpython2.5.so here (slack 12.1)  ; none of them are critical tho to building \0/
[04:05] <Slackaveli> have a look at : Zend Framework
[04:05] <Slackaveli> IT'S A TRUE LEGEND
[04:05] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: one thing about PHP that really bugs the crap out of me: why do half the e.g. array function start with array_ and the other half don't?
[04:06] <Old_Fogie> agentc0re, I've also been told, that there it's not "wrong" if you build static in your packages along with shared.  but static do take longer to load into memory and run so are percieved to be slower (/me thinks of debian they do build static alot)
[04:06] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: because it's open source so everybody can contribute
[04:06] <Slackaveli> then they choose there own name
[04:07] <Slackaveli> it's not a good reasons to not choose PHP :P
[04:07] <Old_Fogie> agentc0re, now sometimes, depending on the app, you _do_ need static.  for example, Slackware doesnt ship 'slang' as static, but to build an app called "partimage" you need slang to be static.
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[04:07] <Urchlay> yes, everybody can contribute, but is there nobody in charge of making releases (or a committee even) who decides what to name things?
[04:07] <Old_Fogie> agentc0re, that's more or less a rarity from what I've seen, and I got a ton of apps I build
[04:07] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: I didn't say it makes PHP bad, I said it's annoying to me :)
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[04:08] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: I don't care about the naming of functions :S
[04:08] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: (obviously, if it annoys me, that means I'm actually using it already)
[04:08] <Old_Fogie> agentc0re, but if you look at alienBOB's buildscripts for vlc, you'll see he builds alot of the underlying libs static to make that app build and run right as well.
[04:08] <Slackaveli> I see I see
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[04:08] <Urchlay> I do care, if there are hundreds of them, I want to be able to either remember or at least guess the names
[04:08] <Old_Fogie> agentc0re, HTH.
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[04:09] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: yes this a powerful things in PHP that you said :) a lot of functions
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[04:10] <Urchlay> a lot of really really specific functions though... like, mysql_query() or urlencode()... stuff that, in perl, is part of the module library instead of the language... different design choices
[04:10] <Urchlay> one's not necessarily better than the other for a given purpose
[04:11] <Slackaveli> it's your opinion
[04:11] <agentc0re> Old_Fogie: Interesting.
[04:12] <Slackaveli> but the discussion is too long than that
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[04:12] <Urchlay> but if I were writing something that had nothing to do with the web or databases, I'd want some assurances that the inclusion of web and database specific code in the executable, wasn't going to cause bloat or performance loss (I notice, running php from the command line, it takes a looong time to start up compared to perl, but I don't know why yet)
[04:12] <Old_Fogie> agentc0re, I do however find building shared good for one reason, tho it's a pita at first is.  For example, the sqlite ...if I change a 0.1 bump in sqlite...gnome is broken.  That really helps (at the end of the day) to make sure the apps are all built and run smooth/smoother in accord with the new version I'd think (tho that's my gut no technical proof).
[04:13] <Old_Fogie> agentc0re, and if the app can't build on the new version that's needed for a security fix, well then there's some regression of some kind, and I need to report it.
[04:14] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: if you talk about PHP/MySQL there is no fast language more than PHP in interaction
[04:14] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: and forget about mysql_query() I don't use it since 1 year
[04:15] <Slackaveli> there is somthing called abstraction database layers
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[04:15] <Slackaveli> PDO is my favorite
[04:15] <agentc0re> Old_Fogie: so i guess it would be wise to build gnome staticly but you could build your other apps shared?  and the libs, can you build both static and shared?
[04:16] <dive> if apache is configured to use php mod, doesn't it start up the same time as httpd? Rather than on executing a script?
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[04:16] <Urchlay> dive: yes
[04:16] <Urchlay> same thing if apache's configured to use mod_perl
[04:16] <Urchlay> startup time isn't really that important for either one, you don't start the server that often
[04:17] <Old_Fogie> agentc0re, you could do that sure yup.  I just have all my scripts already building shared only, and I do like that my gnome (and my apps) take very little hard drive space, so I do prefer shared at the cost of breakage on secrity fixes and alot of compiling.
[04:17] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: PDO is an add-on? I may have to look into that
[04:17] <Urchlay> Old_Fogie: eh? shared is *better* for security fixes
[04:17] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, I said 'prefer'
[04:18] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: that exist by default in PHP 5.2 and up
[04:18] <Urchlay> "..I do prefer shared at the cost of breakage on secrity fixes and alot of compiling"... am I reading it backwards?
[04:18] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, no you just didn't follow the convo
[04:18] <Old_Fogie> :D
[04:19] <Urchlay> it sounds like you're saying breakage and extra compiling is the cost of using shared libs
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[04:19] <agentc0re> Thats how I read that as well.
[04:19] <Agiofws>  hello
[04:19] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, when you build shared, for gnome, and get a security fix (that is new version) of sqlite, xulrunner...that's almost a rebuild of all gnome.
[04:20] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, so since I build shared, yeah I get breakage if I just build the new version and upgradekg
[04:20] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: sadly, for what I'm doing now, I'm stuck at PHP 4.3.9 (I could upgrade to 5.x on the dev server, but I don't get to touch production, it's one of those cheezy shared-hosting places)
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[04:20] <Old_Fogie> thats' what I mean
[04:21] <Urchlay> Old_Fogie: it shouldn't be, though. Upgrading the libsqlite.so to the fixed version, should mean that all the apps that link to it, will automatically use the new version
[04:21] <Urchlay> that's sort of the whole point
[04:21] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, go ask gnome
[04:21] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, I mean it's nuts
[04:21] <Urchlay> the only reason it'd break would be if the new version has an incompatible API (which would mean it contains a lot more changes than just a security fix)
[04:21] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, tell me why the "gdm" log in manager links to "make" and if "make" is not on board, gdm wont run.
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[04:21] <Old_Fogie> it's just nuts
[04:22] <Urchlay> Old_Fogie: huh? You mean "make", as in the binary /usr/bin/make, is required by gdm at *runtime*? That is completely insane
[04:22] <Old_Fogie> Urchlay, yup
[04:22] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: hmm, you have to check the difference between PHP 4 and 5 I think that you can upgrade easily to PHP5 if you don't use OOP because there is some differences
[04:22] <Urchlay> Old_Fogie: that's the best argument for not using Gnome that I've ever heard :)
[04:23] <Old_Fogie> gdm-2.20.8 does
[04:23] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: I won't upgrade for this project, the spec says production is PHP 4, so that's where the dev box stays
[04:23] <Old_Fogie> not sure if other versions after do, since I really havent lookked in a while, and every box I have always has make on it
[04:24] <Urchlay> unfortunately the dev box has mysql 5, and production is mysql 3 (yes, 3, almost 10 years old now)
[04:24] <Slackaveli> woow
[04:24] <Zordrak> Aaaannd.. I'm back..
[04:24] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: I didn't get to pick any of this stuff BTW, don't blame me :)
[04:24] <Zordrak> a full night's sleep and i'm still exhausted
[04:24] <agentc0re> well hello Zordrak.
[04:24] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: you will have a big work if you try to do that
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[04:25] <Zordrak> This office needs a hammock
[04:25] Action: dive is zombiefied from no night's sleep
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[04:25] <Zordrak> it would be fair for the amount of time i spend here
[04:25] <Urchlay> Slackaveli: well it's work. I'd rather be doing something fun, but nobody will pay me to write 6502 assembly code on a 25+ year out of date Atari :)
[04:25] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: for me I was not just upgrading my old PHP programs to php5 but writing them entirely in Zend Framework
[04:26] <Slackaveli> Urchlay: I see now
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[04:26] <Zordrak> but then i guess i'm lucky to have my own office at all
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[04:26] <Slackaveli> Zordrak: hello my friend :)
[04:27] <Slackaveli> what do you think about my new nick :P
[04:27] <Zordrak> I think it's missing an I
[04:27] <Urchlay> Zordrak: speaking as a former cube-dweller... you lucky bastard :)
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[04:27] <Zordrak> Urchlay: :)
[04:27] <Slackaveli> it's a combination of Machiavelli the DON and Slackware :P
[04:28] <Zordrak> i know
[04:28] <Zordrak> i still think it's missing an I
[04:28] <Zordrak> and an l
[04:28] <Urchlay> Zordrak: however I now work from home... unfortunately my room isn't much bigger than a cubicle :(
[04:28] <Zordrak> Slackiavelli
[04:28] <Urchlay> yeah
[04:28] <Slackaveli> I was thinking about that at first
[04:28] <Slackaveli> but I found a same nick in google :P
[04:29] Action: Zordrak /nick Sackiavelli
[04:29] <Urchlay> sack?
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[04:29] <Zordrak> yeah... its different to anyone else's...
[04:30] Action: Slackaveli a pool is opened : choose 1 for : Slackaveli, 2 for : Slachiavelli :P
[04:30] <Zordrak> errr.. i choose 3
[04:30] <Zordrak> Slackiavelli
[04:30] <Zordrak> it's the only one that actually makes sesnes
[04:30] Action: Slackaveli a pool is opened : choose 1 for : Slackaveli, 2 for : Slachiavelli, 3 for : Slackiavelli
[04:30] <Zordrak> ahem
[04:30] <dive> 4.. no wait... 3... no wait up...
[04:30] <Zordrak> sense
[04:30] <Slackaveli> :P
[04:31] <Slackaveli> Zordrak: because I respect you I will do that for you :P
[04:31] <Mad_Dud> what's going on? :-)
[04:31] Nick change: Slackaveli -> Slackiavelli
[04:31] <Zordrak> Slackaveli: do it for you not me
[04:31] <dive> picachoo i choose you
[04:31] <Slackiavelli> :D
[04:31] <Zordrak> it's not my nick
[04:31] <Slackiavelli> it's more comfortable :D
[04:31] <Zordrak> just telling you what i think
[04:32] <Slackiavelli> Zordrak: no I was thinking about it at first :)
[04:32] <Slackiavelli> no you confirm
[04:32] <Urchlay> well, I like it better as Slackiavelli
[04:32] <Slackiavelli> Urchlay: thank you friend
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[04:33] <Slackiavelli> I will honorate this name soon ;)
[04:33] <Urchlay> If you were using a macintosh instead, hmmm. Maciavelli?
[04:33] <Slackiavelli> hhhhhhhhhhhhh
[04:33] <Slackiavelli> I will think about it :P
[04:33] <dive> honorate? Register it maybe
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[04:33] <euzao> hey
[04:34] <Slackiavelli> dive: you will see me soon at google and you will understand ;)
[04:34] <dive> right
[04:34] Action: Slackiavelli brb
[04:34] <euzao> Slack installed a lot of things that I won't use...
[04:35] <Urchlay> euzao: removepkg is your friend :)
[04:35] <euzao> Urchlay, it would be crazyness
[04:35] <Zordrak> euzao: no, you installed a lot of thingcs you won't use
[04:35] <Urchlay> what would be? deleting stuff you won't use?
[04:35] <Zordrak> euzao: dont blame slack for your installation choices
[04:35] <euzao> Urchlay, not very practical...
[04:36] <Urchlay> Zordrak: well, in the installer, it does say "recommended" next to the "install everything" choice
[04:36] <euzao> well... it was the recommended
[04:36] <euzao> if they recommend...
[04:36] <Zordrak> Urchlay: because it is...
[04:36] <Urchlay> if he's new to slackware, you can hardly blame him for taking the recommended choice
[04:36] <dive> and most advice given here is to install all and then trim down after
[04:36] <Zordrak> Urchlay: I recommended Slackiavelli.. but if he gets shot because of his name.. it's not my fault
[04:37] <agentc0re> recommended what?
[04:37] <Urchlay> Zordrak: sure. But if he gets beat up because of his name, that doesn't mean he's not even allowed to *mention* it to you
[04:37] <Zordrak> We also advise people to rtfm before installing
[04:37] <euzao> why terminal is just "bash-3.1$ "
[04:37] <euzao> how do I change that?
[04:37] <Zordrak> euzao: /etc/profile
[04:38] <euzao> but that is only at X terminals
[04:38] <Urchlay> euzao: what flavor of terminal? Find the option to run a login shell in that terminal
[04:38] <agentc0re> euzao: you need to turn on a setting called "run command as login shell"
[04:38] <Urchlay> yeah
[04:38] <Zordrak> .bashrc: . /etc/bashrc
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[04:39] <euzao> ah got it
[04:39] <euzao> =]
[04:39] <Zordrak> /etc/profile: . /etc/bashrc
[04:39] <Zordrak> then change it in /etc/bashrc
[04:39] <dive> o0
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[04:40] <dive> shouldn't to touch any /etc/* for that
[04:40] <Zordrak> dive: it's a simple template to catch *all* bash shells
[04:40] <Urchlay> hopefully not all
[04:40] <Zordrak> for one box
[04:40] <dive> it should just read .bashrc or .bash_profile
[04:40] <Urchlay> you don't want the shell that runs a shell script to be reading your aliases, necessarily
[04:40] <dive> if it's a login shell
[04:41] <Zordrak> Urchlay: I use .bashrc for per-account and /etc/bashrc for system-wide
[04:41] <Zordrak> and /etc/bashrc sets the custom prompt
[04:41] <Zordrak> and colours green, or colours red if root
[04:42] <agentc0re> well i'm off to bed guys.  nite.
[04:42] <dive> nn
[04:42] <Urchlay> I tend to only use /etc/profile.d for stuff like color prompts, and run all my shells as login shells (e.g. XTerm*loginShell: true in ~/.Xdefaults)
[04:42] <Zordrak> but to effect /etc/bashrc system wide it's sourced by the .bashrcs for the accounts i want it in
[04:43] <Zordrak> so i can still have shells that are completely unaffected
[04:43] <Slackiavelli> guys has someone used The shapefile library :s
[04:43] <Zordrak> but most shells i use are customised by that one script
[04:43] <Slackiavelli> I need it to read some spatial information to use it in mapserver :s
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[04:44] <Slackiavelli> I can't compile this version in Slackware 12.2
[04:44] <Slackiavelli> :(
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[04:45] <Urchlay> this? http://shapelib.maptools.org/
[04:45] <Slackiavelli> yes it is
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[04:46] <Slackiavelli> The term shapefile is something of a misnomer since a shapefile actually consists of three files that
[04:46] <Slackiavelli> share the same base name and are distinguished by file extension. One component contains spatial information.
[04:46] <Slackiavelli> Each geographical feature in the data set is represented by a single record in this file that specifies the
[04:46] Channel flood from Slackiavelli -- kicking
[04:46] <Slackiavelli> geographical coordinates of the feature. This file has an extension of .shp. An index file with an extension
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[04:46] <Slackiavelli> sorry
[04:47] <Urchlay> hm. I just compiled shapelib-1.2.10 on slackware 12.2, no problems
[04:47] <Slackiavelli> ehhhh are you sure ?
[04:48] <tank-man> more sure than you :)
[04:48] <euzao> is it possible to have the same options I have on Slackware installer?
[04:48] <euzao> and remove all stuff I don't want?
[04:48] <Urchlay> Slackiavelli: I just extracted it and went "make", without even reading the docs :)
[04:48] <Slackiavelli> Urchlay:  try make test please
[04:49] <Slackiavelli> This will produce the following
[04:49] <Slackiavelli> binaries: dbfadd, dbfcreate, dbfdump, shpadd, shpcreate, shpdump, shprewind, and shptest.
[04:49] <Zordrak> euzao: either choose just what you want... or install all and remove what you dont want
[04:49] <Urchlay> "make test" assumes the current directory is in the PATH
[04:49] <Urchlay> if . isn't in your path, do: PATH=.:$PATH make test
[04:49] <Zordrak> euzao: besides hiring a magician thtose are your choices
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[04:49] <euzao> Zordrak, I mean the options I had on the installer
[04:49] <Slackiavelli> OK I will try that
[04:49] <Urchlay> $ PATH=.:$PATH make test
[04:50] <Urchlay> ******* Stream 2 Succeeded *********
[04:50] <Urchlay> ******* Stream 3 Succeeded *********
[04:50] <Urchlay> I dunno if that's what's expected or not, but it looks promising, no?
[04:50] <Slackiavelli> did you find this files in the same directory ? dbfadd, dbfcreate, dbfdump, shpadd, shpcreate, shpdump, shprewind, and shptest.
[04:50] <Urchlay> yes
[04:51] <Slackiavelli> so it's right
[04:51] <Slackiavelli> I will try you issue
[04:51] <Slackiavelli> thank you man
[04:51] <Urchlay> well, just running "make" created those files... "make test" uses them
[04:51] <Slackiavelli> ok
[04:51] <Urchlay> there is no "make install", hopefully you know what to do about that :)
[04:52] <Slackiavelli> yes I know
[04:52] <Slackiavelli> the shapelib build isnt configuration based.
[04:53] <Zordrak> euzao: http://slackbook.org
[04:53] <Urchlay> it also doesn't appear to build an actual library (.a or .so)
[04:53] <Urchlay> just a couple of .o files
[04:53] <Urchlay> oh, wait, "make lib" creates a shared lib
[04:53] <Slackiavelli> yes for that you need to do :  make lib and make lib_install
[04:54] <Slackiavelli> that's it
[04:54] <Urchlay> again, I didn't bother to read the docs :)
[04:54] <Slackiavelli> Urchlay: LOL you are the best don't care about that :P
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[04:55] <Urchlay> so your original trouble was that "make test" failed?
[04:55] <Slackiavelli> Urchlay: exactly
[04:56] <Urchlay> yeah... that's kind of a crappy Makefile, it doesn't even have a way to change the install location for install_lib (it's hard-wired for /usr/local/lib)
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[04:56] <Slackiavelli> hmm ok
[04:57] <Slackiavelli> so PATH=.:$PATH  will be the issue
[04:57] <Slackiavelli> ?
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[04:58] <Urchlay> yeah. If you were making a new release of the sources, you'd probably want to add that line to the three *.sh files
[04:58] <Urchlay> well, 'export PATH=.:$PATH' near the top of each script
[04:59] <Slackiavelli> hmm OK thank you brotha
[04:59] <Slackiavelli> see you later
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[05:01] <euzao> do you know the package selection in installer? isn't there a tool that is similar to that? I want to uninstall some app
[05:02] <Old_Fogie> euzao, "man pkgtool"
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[05:04] <Urchlay> Slackiavelli: if you want a homework assignment... make a SlackBuild for shapelib and submit it to slackbuilds.org :)
[05:05] <Slackiavelli> Urchlay: don't care about that friend I have more than 10 slackbuilds te prepare soon :)
[05:05] <Slackiavelli> drupal mapserver zend framework symfony .... :)
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[05:07] <Zordrak> euzao: http://slackbook.org
[05:08] <Zordrak> euzao: ls /var/log/packages
[05:08] <Zordrak> removepkg <pkg>
[05:08] <Urchlay> hrrr, nobody's already done drupal slackbuild? thought it was pretty popular
[05:09] <euzao> what is sendmail for?
[05:10] <Zordrak> euzao: are you frigging kidding me?!
[05:10] <Slackiavelli> Urchlay: no one can do it better than me :P, I used drupal since 2 years
[05:10] <Zordrak> Am I on TV or something?
[05:10] <Slackiavelli> since drupal 5.0 to drupal 7.0
[05:10] <Zordrak> is this Newbs say the funniest things?
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[05:12] <euzao> Zordrak, you seem irritated
[05:12] <Slackiavelli> euzao: I think that you need to read slackbook entirely before asking questions this is what Zordrak means
[05:13] <Zordrak> euzao: What in christ's own tricycle do you THINK sendmail is for?
[05:13] <euzao> wow I'm amazed
[05:13] <hiptobecubic> euzao, sendmail is some kind network-aware interpersonal ascii data exchange platform. check the manpage
[05:13] <euzao> KDE has latin revisor
[05:13] <euzao> hahaha
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[05:14] <Urchlay> Zordrak :)
[05:15] <Zordrak> noobfarmed the question
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[05:26] <jonsmith1982> Zordrak, do you setup hosting environments?
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[05:29] <Zordrak> jonsmith1982: not for consumers
[05:30] <jonsmith1982> always wondered if there were any applications that set the base of it up for you. like chroot jail, and vhosts linked with sendmail.....
[05:32] <Urchlay> I used to know a guy who developed & sold an app like that, can't remember WTF it was called
[05:32] <hiptobecubic> ugh. I absolutely am not understanding qdisc functionality
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[05:34] <jonsmith1982> i'd get a VPS, if i knew it would be easy to maintain.
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[05:37] <jonsmith1982> none that i know of come with slackware pre-installed either.
[05:37] <hiptobecubic> vps?
[05:38] <kjell> Virtual Private Server
[05:38] <hiptobecubic> i.e. linode?
[05:38] <jonsmith1982> http://www.slicehost.com/
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[05:51] <Zordrak> jonsmith1982: colo ftw
[05:51] <Zordrak> cheaper in the long run too
[05:56] <Zordrak> 1u boxen are deep in the cheap atm
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[06:01] <Zordrak> why dont slacky.eu pass thei slackbuilds onto sbo?
[06:02] <dive> they want the monopoly?
[06:02] <Zordrak> can only assume
[06:06] <Zordrak> eeeewwwwwwww
[06:06] <Zordrak> hardcoded paths to where THEY install stuff
[06:06] <dive> god
[06:06] <Zordrak> QMAKE=/opt/qt4/bin/qmake
[06:07] <Zordrak> ARCH=i686
[06:07] <Urchlay> hm, slacky.eu uses the slack-required stuff, which sbo doesn't... maybe that's got something to do with it?
[06:07] <Zordrak> screw slacky
[06:07] <dive> yeah i would
[06:07] <dive> as bad as lp.net
[06:07] <Zordrak> but im still stealing the script to mod
[06:07] <Urchlay> :)
[06:08] <Urchlay> dive: linuxpackages.net is the one where you can sometimes find .tgz packages, but not the slackbuilds for them?
[06:08] <dive> yeah mostly
[06:08] <Zordrak> Urchlay: Please don't swear
[06:09] <dive> although I *did* find a spidermonkey package to take apart and found a slackbuild in it ;)
[06:09] <dive> pity the guy left out the patch though..
[06:14] <Urchlay> I got so annoyed with that site I deleted it from my bookmarks...
[06:14] <Urchlay> and I *never* delete stuff from bookmarks
[06:16] <The-Croupier> bofh and noobfarm still manage to amaze me..;)
[06:17] <The-Croupier> Urchlay: reverse your thinking and you might be able to end up in that website ;)
[06:17] <The-Croupier> where did you find it last time, the contents of the site,part of the url,...anything ;)
[06:20] <Urchlay> I don' remember now, I was searching for a slackbuild for something or another, feeling too lazy to write my own
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[06:21] <Urchlay> hm, noobfarm, is that run by someone here?
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[06:25] <Buggaboo> I recall there was some drama here, about the maintainer of linuxpackages writing nasty scripts to preserve "his" copyright or something weird.
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[06:25] <Buggaboo> Deleting stuff without consent or something.
[06:25] <The-Croupier> Urchlay, yep i believe soo
[06:25] Action: The-Croupier is careful of Dominian ;)
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[06:26] <Buggaboo> The maintainer lost a lot of cookie points during that period.
[06:26] <The-Croupier> Buggaboo is that lp.net you are talking about?
[06:27] <Buggaboo> hm. I think so.
[06:27] <Buggaboo> I may be talking out of my ass btw. Not a clear recollection.
[06:27] <The-Croupier> most of the guys in here will tell you to be careful, even stay away from lp.net and i think thats for lots of reasons
[06:28] <The-Croupier> one of them could be that! i do recall something like that though.. and there was a link to the topic you are talking about stating the same thing
[06:28] <The-Croupier> on the other hand... i do prefer sbo and with sbopkg its even easier ;) also... its nice to know the principles and make pkgs of your own ;)
[06:29] <Urchlay> I was making my own packages for a couple of years before it ever occurred to me to look for sites with packages on them :)
[06:30] Action: The-Croupier believes that if we make everything automated, we will end up like every other open source OS that only the ones old enough would know what was/is behind everything they do... and the rest would start asking questions and "demand" answers
[06:30] <The-Croupier> Urchlay, you mean you didnt know sbo? or it didnt exist then?
[06:30] <Urchlay> I don't know when it first existed...
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[06:31] <Urchlay> but I didn't know about it until last year I think
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[06:31] <The-Croupier> i do like/trust some of the guys in here and their pkgs when i cannot/dont have the time to make my own...
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[06:31] <Urchlay> I probably ran slackware for 6 or 7 years just doing "make install" and having everything in /usr/local
[06:32] <The-Croupier> on the other hand, i love trying making new pkgs all the time... that just tells me i need more stuff configured for my laptop to be ok ;) and stuff that might be missing..hence better understanding of what you got.
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[06:33] <Urchlay> part of that's because the first Linux-related job I had, I inherited a network of maybe 20 servers that were running 20 different distros/versions... "./configure && make && make install" worked on all of 'em, so I got in the habit of using it...
[06:33] <The-Croupier> Urchlay, i did that a couple of months. then phrags just showed me a couple of sites (sbo included) and then i started reading scripts and making pkgs..still cannot make the best of them..but hey they work for that little amount of time that my laptop stays intact
[06:34] <The-Croupier> Urchlay, how did the cleanup/maintainance go for you?
[06:34] <Urchlay> horribly
[06:34] <The-Croupier> ;)
[06:34] <The-Croupier> isnt it wonderful when you know exactly were you put a pkg, and then just run removepkg and have something dissappear
[06:34] <Urchlay> the boss ended up snorting all the profits up his nose, the place went out of business... but I can honestly say it wasn't my fault :)
[06:35] <The-Croupier> Urchlay, you should have smelled the trouble ;)
[06:35] <The-Croupier> sorry, did your boss not smell it?
[06:35] <Urchlay> well, major stuff like apache, I'd install with the prefix set to /usr/local/apache, then later rm -rf /usr/local/apache to remove the "package"
[06:36] <Urchlay> dude, there were so many things horribly wrong with that place (the lack of business model, the drug-addicted boss, the fact that he'd literally sell your keyboard to a customer while you were taking a piss...)
[06:36] <Urchlay> hell, he sold my *chair*
[06:37] <Urchlay> whoever bought it must not have noticed, but it was still warm from my ass...
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[06:37] <The-Croupier> damn man
[06:37] <The-Croupier> Urchlay, did you work in jail? i bet even in jail they dont take your chair
[06:37] <Urchlay> is OK, at the time it was a dream job, compared to what I did before
[06:38] <Urchlay> nah, place was called Linux General Store
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[06:38] Action: The-Croupier is afraid to ask
[06:38] <linrer> hi
[06:38] <The-Croupier> shhhhhh dont scare the ppl
[06:38] <The-Croupier> linrer,hi
[06:39] <The-Croupier> Urchlay, so what are you doing atm?
[06:39] <Urchlay> contract coding stuff
[06:39] <Urchlay> crappy websites in PHP mostly
[06:40] <Urchlay> working from home, which has its benefits & disadvantages
[06:40] <The-Croupier> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/19/ufo_crash_site/
[06:41] <The-Croupier> tell me he sold your chair at home
[06:41] <The-Croupier> Urchlay, im learning web-design and photoshop atm ;)
[06:41] <Buggaboo> damn crack-whore CEOs.
[06:42] <Urchlay> Buggaboo: even worse, this guy was a sole proprietor
[06:42] <The-Croupier> well into it.. the bastard keeps you awake all nighters when little pics dont go the way you want them ;)
[06:42] <Urchlay> (er, well, it turned out he had a silent partner, who showed up one day and said "I am the boss, you will do as I say!")
[06:43] Action: Buggaboo puts in his list of things to ask during a job interview: - Haz U a crack habit? - You like to sell warm chairs?
[06:43] <Urchlay> The-Croupier: I can't sleep worth a damn at night anyway... might as well work
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[06:44] <Urchlay> Buggaboo: I ended up having to write my name in sharpie marker on everything that was mine, along with the words "NOT FOR SALE"
[06:45] <Buggaboo> I say quit while your seat hasn't been warmed up.
[06:45] <Urchlay> cheap bastard wouldn't get us decent workstations so we pretty much all brought in our own
[06:45] <Buggaboo> wtf.
[06:45] <Urchlay> Buggaboo: oh, this was years ago now. The place is long out of business
[06:45] <Buggaboo> ah okay.
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[06:46] <The-Croupier> ohh dont think that is only for your one.. ;) there are lots of bosses like that here in greece too
[06:46] <Urchlay> it was my first tech job, unless you count fixing peoples' windows installs for beer
[06:46] <The-Croupier> Urchlay, they are the best jobs ;)
[06:46] <Buggaboo> Urchlay, you might consider dumping php and going with Ruby on Rails or Django (or Erlyweb... if you can hack it...)
[06:46] Action: The-Croupier hands Urchlay a beer
[06:47] <Urchlay> Buggaboo: dude, I don't get to pick, or I'd probably pick mod_perl + Mason (or whatever the new perlish hotness is, been a while since I did web stuff in perl)
[06:47] <Buggaboo> or use some MVC framework for php... I personally stay away from it like the plague...
[06:47] <Buggaboo> and feck apache, use nginx.
[06:47] <Urchlay> can you recommend a good MVC framework?
[06:47] <Buggaboo> I just did didn't I?
[06:47] <Buggaboo> RoR or Django
[06:47] <Urchlay> eh? which?
[06:48] <Urchlay> I meant, a good MVC framework for PHP
[06:48] <Buggaboo> oh.
[06:48] <Urchlay> I'm stuck with PHP
[06:48] <Buggaboo> hm. lemme see.
[06:48] <Urchlay> (not my choice)
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[06:49] <Buggaboo> people I know swear by Symphony.
[06:49] <Buggaboo> but I think they're fools... but who am I to say...
[06:49] <Urchlay> stuck with apache, too, but I'm OK with that (it may not be the best, but it's comfortable like my old boots...)
[06:50] <The-Croupier> yeah, some things tend to get quicker and better as they get older ;) like fine fine wine ;)
[06:50] <Urchlay> hm, their page says: Symfony is a full-stack framework, a library of cohesive classes written in PHP5.
[06:50] <Buggaboo> hm... or old boots apparently.
[06:50] <Urchlay> sadly I'm stuck with PHP4 for this crap
[06:50] <Buggaboo> damn.
[06:50] <Urchlay> heh, and mysql 3
[06:50] <Buggaboo> U haz trouble...
[06:50] <Urchlay> which is what, 10 years old now?
[06:51] <Buggaboo> btw, who dictates that you are stuck?
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[06:51] <Buggaboo> and do they know what the heck they are dictating?
[06:51] <Urchlay> the client, who's already picked out a el-cheepo hosting provider, who only offers php4 and mysql3
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[06:51] <Buggaboo> feck.
[06:51] <Urchlay> and no, he has no clue, but *shrug* it's a job anyway
[06:51] <Buggaboo> the basturds!
[06:52] Action: The-Croupier agrees
[06:52] <Buggaboo> hm. well, I say hone your skills, (try Django, Symphony, RoR) in the meantime...
[06:52] <Urchlay> already having trouble cause the dev server has mysql 4, and I didn't read the fine print (mysql 3 didn't have group_concat()...)
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[06:53] <Urchlay> ruby on rails would mean learning ruby, which I should probably do anyway (all I know about it is that it looks like a cross between perl and python)
[06:53] <Buggaboo> Urchlay, fraid you will have to roll your own and smoke it....
[06:53] <Buggaboo> Urchlay, it gets perly if you code like it... but it's a nice concise language.
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[06:53] <Buggaboo> I'm more of a python guy, but that's my problem.
[06:53] <Urchlay> well, perl contains 4 or 5 nice, concise languages :)
[06:54] <Buggaboo> I'm flirting with erlang/erlyweb nowadays.
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[06:54] <Urchlay> erlang I know nothing of... functional language, haskell-style?
[06:54] <Buggaboo> nope.
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[06:54] <Slackiavelli> Urchlay: and ruby seems more important than perl too :P
[06:54] <Buggaboo> it is FP btw.
[06:54] <Buggaboo> but it does a whole lot more.
[06:55] <sombriks> someeone knows if KDE4.2 packages are ready?
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[06:55] <Urchlay> Slackiavelli: what happened to you man, did perl beat you up, steal your girlfriend? what did it do to make you hate it so much? :P
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[06:56] <Slackiavelli> Urchlay: RoR is a veryyyyyyyyyyy useful Framework and even symfony is a copy of RoR in version PHP instead of Ruby so it can be an alternative
[06:56] <The-Croupier> Urchlay, maybe it did all that and sold it afterwards. ;)
[06:56] <Slackiavelli> Urchlay: no no I didn't hate it
[06:56] <Slackiavelli> I am just making it in the right place
[06:56] <Zordrak> Slackiavelli: stfu or I will replace you with a very small perl script! :)
[06:56] <Slackiavelli> the right context
[06:57] <Slackiavelli> Zordrak: you said that your domain is admin system so scripting language are my perfect domain too
[06:57] <Urchlay> I'd actually like PHP better if its syntax was *less* like perl's... I keep trying to write perl stuff that obviously doesn't work in PHP...
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[06:58] <Urchlay> still, rather deal with a scripting language than frigging java servlets
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[06:58] <Slackiavelli> if you see all the real benefice of PHP and even Ruby you will forget right now perl except for using it in regular expression :P
[06:59] <Urchlay> Slackiavelli: I doubt that
[06:59] <Urchlay> when I add new tools to the toolbox, doesn't mean I forget about the old ones (at least not if they're any good at all)
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[07:00] <Slackiavelli> C++ cover 99,99 % of OOP more than Java
[07:01] <Slackiavelli> but we still using java primary
[07:01] <Slackiavelli> did you understand ?
[07:01] <Urchlay> understand what you're saying? sure
[07:01] <duryodhan> Slackiavelli: you mean 99.99 %
[07:01] <Urchlay> though I'm not a part of your "we", I avoid java like the plague :)
[07:02] <Urchlay> duryodhan: european style is to use a comma for a decimal point
[07:02] <Urchlay> actually, Slackiavelli, where the heck are you from?
[07:02] <duryodhan> Urchlay: waht!?
[07:02] <linrer> yup
[07:02] <Urchlay> duryodhan: at least I've seen it before somewhere
[07:02] <Slackiavelli> so you are wrong and you will never discover the trube best practice of OOP (design patterns, method softwares...)
[07:03] <Slackiavelli> Oh it's 12:03 here in morocco
[07:03] <Slackiavelli> time to eat :P
[07:03] <Urchlay> Slackiavelli: you know what though, I don't think any of that stuff is The Ultimate Way To Do Things
[07:03] <dive> huh it's 12:03 here in UK
[07:03] <Slackiavelli> se ya all
[07:03] <dive> bb
[07:03] <Urchlay> it's what's popular currently, but 10 years from now it'll be outdated
[07:03] <Urchlay> (which doesn't mean it won't still be useful)
[07:04] <Slackiavelli> Urchlay:  so you lost the true road of real best practices programing :(
[07:04] <Slackiavelli> ciao
[07:04] <Slackiavelli> see ya later
[07:04] <Slackiavelli> sorry
[07:04] <Urchlay> "best practices" sounds uncomfortably like "do what you're told" to mew
[07:04] <Urchlay> to me
[07:04] <The-Croupier> 2.04 greece
[07:05] <Zordrak> Slackiavelli: it is *NOT* up to the language to force you to program properly
[07:05] <duryodhan> any news of kde 4.2 in slack ?
[07:05] <Urchlay> I'm not the type of person who will *ever* take someone's word for it that something is "best". I have to find out for myself
[07:05] <Zordrak> Slackiavelli: that is up to YOU to do
[07:05] <Zordrak> Slackiavelli: a good language gives you freedom to choose
[07:06] <Urchlay> aye
[07:06] <Zordrak> perl > [python,ruby] for the same kind of reason Slackware > Red Hat
[07:07] Action: The-Croupier likes c,c++ and some of java ;)
[07:07] <Zordrak> die java die
[07:07] <SharkBait> Ew, java
[07:07] <Urchlay> I like the kind of java you drink
[07:07] <dive> guh java
[07:07] <Urchlay> but usually I don't call it that...
[07:07] <Zordrak> i do NOT need 6 concentric containers JUST to print hello world in a texn box!!
[07:07] <Old_Fogie> re: java , I've never felt like I've had a fast enuff pc to run them apps, ever.
[07:07] <Urchlay> C still rules
[07:08] <Urchlay> Zordrak: so I'm not the only one that hates that crap
[07:08] <dive> we would be nowhere without C
[07:08] <duryodhan> I think the best thign about Java is teh JVM
[07:08] <duryodhan> its a nice cross platform VM which works
[07:08] <duryodhan> and is open source
[07:08] <duryodhan> so as a language developer you could write a compiler that targets the JVM
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[07:09] <dive> /mode +b *@java.org
[07:09] <Zordrak> duryodhan: but is still a twat to even get working on many platforms
[07:09] <duryodhan> in fact most of the actual innovations in the Java space have been in the new langs for JVM
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[07:09] <Urchlay> duryodhan: has anyone ever done an ISO C compiler that targets the JVM? That, I'd be interested in playing with
[07:09] <duryodhan> Zordrak: what the JRE ??
[07:09] <Zordrak> C FTW!!
[07:09] <duryodhan> Zordrak: don't confuse JVM with Java
[07:09] <Old_Fogie> I dont know anyone (outside of dev's ) that like running java stuff personally.  even non-tech people dont like it.
[07:10] <Zordrak> duryodhan: im not
[07:10] <duryodhan> never had any problems installing JRE on any platforms
[07:10] <duryodhan> what platforms are you talking about ?
[07:10] <The-Croupier> Old_Fogie, non-tech people dont like anything..if it doesnt have nice colors.. and java does have some nice colors sometimes
[07:11] <Zordrak> duryodhan: the JRE has been around for YEARS and still doesnt even have a standard location in the FHS .. mostly because of Sun
[07:11] <Zordrak> Sun == Laudable goals; Questionable implementation
[07:11] <Urchlay> duryodhan: some psychopath is porting a subset of the JVM to the 6502 :)
[07:11] <Old_Fogie> The-Croupier, true but they see how long it takes for stuff to run, and how it feels and the java name for the applet is usually shown when loading and slow is my reference tot hat
[07:11] <duryodhan> Urchlay: I don't think that anyone wrote one for C-- already there are compilers for each platform :)
[07:11] <duryodhan> Zordrak: FHS location ?!?!
[07:11] <duryodhan> FHS is useless ...
[07:12] <Zordrak> location IN
[07:12] <Urchlay> duryodhan: bummer. The "write-once-run-anywhere" thing would be great for a lot of the little utilities I write
[07:12] <duryodhan> I still can't figure out the /media vs /mnt
[07:12] <Zordrak> as in a standard place to put it in linux
[07:12] <duryodhan> Urchlay: write once debug everywhere
[07:12] <Urchlay> bleah. cd / && rmdir media && ln -s mnt  media
[07:12] <duryodhan> Zordrak: how does it matter ?
[07:12] <Zordrak> i dont mean "ratified"
[07:12] <Zordrak> just a place to live
[07:12] <duryodhan> Zordrak: does ghci have one ? does python have it ?
[07:12] <Zordrak> /usr/lib/python
[07:13] <duryodhan> Zordrak:has that been ratified by FHS ?!
[07:13] <Zordrak> or /usr/local/lib/python for teh sux
[07:13] <Zordrak> moron.. your bus is leaving!
[07:13] <duryodhan> Zordrak: FHS ratification is painful and mostly useless
[07:13] <Zordrak> 12:12:33 < Zordrak> i dont mean "ratified"
[07:13] <Urchlay> duryodhan: most of these are little CLI utilities that extract files from emulator disk images, or convert text files from oddball formats, stuff like that. Stuff that I'm most comfortable doing in perl or C... my target audience (such as it is) are mostly windows users
[07:14] <duryodhan> then whats a standard location? if not ratified ..
[07:14] <duryodhan> hmm tried any of the numerous scripting langs for JVM
[07:14] <Zordrak> duryodhan: dont be an idiot just because i said FHS... s/FHS/linux filesystem structure/
[07:14] <duryodhan> Urchlay: there is python/ ruby/ javascript etc. that should do such odd jobs
[07:14] <Urchlay> they're not a *paying* audience, so I hand them a cross-compiled .exe and say "don't cry if it doesn't work"
[07:15] <duryodhan> Zordrak: ok .. you yourself said python doesn't have a standard location ..
[07:15] <Zordrak> no i said the opposite -- again
[07:15] <duryodhan> Zordrak: I am saying .. the location is immaterial .. you can set your JAVA_HOME ..
[07:15] <Urchlay> duryodhan: of those 3, how many are preinstalled on a typical end user windows machine? (I know IE includes JS, but standalone JS programs?)
[07:15] <duryodhan> Urchlay: noo... those 3 langs are compiled to JVM
[07:16] <duryodhan> Urchlay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_JVM_languages
[07:16] <Zordrak> i am not going to continue here... when i say something you respond as if i had said the exact opposite
[07:16] <Zordrak> die plskthx
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[07:16] <Urchlay> OK... still rather have a C compiler that spits out JVM bytecode though, since the code's already written/debugged
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[07:17] <kleanchap> http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/01/26/linux-keeps-dying/
[07:17] <The-Croupier> nice c api?
[07:17] <Urchlay> also, *some* of these little utilities are cross-compilable to run on the emulated platform (Atari 800, Commodore 64)... no way in hell is anyone going to come up with a usable JVM that runs on an 8-bit platform with a 64K RAM limit and a 1 or 2MHz CPU
[07:18] <duryodhan> Zordrak: ok .. you said JVM sucks and hard to work across platforms the argument you gave was that it doesn't have a standard location. .. I think tahts a very stupid argument .. JVM might suck for a million reasons (speed etc.) but the location !? seriously?!?
[07:18] <duryodhan> Urchlay: J2ME ;) rofl
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[07:18] <duryodhan> Urchlay: ok
[07:19] <Urchlay> duryodhan: someone really is porting a tiny subset of the JVM to those platforms, but I doubt it'll ever be useful
[07:19] <duryodhan> ohh is he ? links ?
[07:19] <Urchlay> more of a "wow, look how neat this is!" thing (like running a web server on a commodore 64, just to say you've done it)
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[07:19] <Urchlay> duryodhan: one moment, have to do some bookmark digging
[07:20] <Urchlay> well, here's one project, looks like it hasn't actually gotten very far:
[07:20] <Urchlay> http://www.mts.net/~kbagnall/commodore/java.html
[07:21] <stitchman> you know what drives me crazy?  when i am using cfdisk to configure partitions on a fresh install of slack, and i specify 1024 megs for swap, and i get 972.64 megs in reality, wtf  i want a nice round gig
[07:22] <Urchlay> http://sourceforge.net/projects/nanovm/
[07:22] <Urchlay> that one
[07:22] <The-Croupier> stitchman, do the maths and specify more ;)
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[07:24] <Urchlay> argh, I have this "nanovm-cc65.zip" file on my drive here, and no idea where I got it from
[07:24] <Urchlay> http://www.cc65.org/mailarchive/2007-08/5823.html
[07:24] <Urchlay> that's probably it
[07:25] Nick change: arny -> arny`
[07:25] <Urchlay> yes, that one. Go have a look, it's insane :)
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[07:32] <duryodhan> why would they do thaT ?
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[07:37] <Urchlay> duryodhan: because they're insane :)
[07:38] <Urchlay> duryodhan: or maybe the answer is "because they can"
[07:38] <duryodhan> becauset its there .. :)
[07:38] <duryodhan> (the everest climber
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[07:38] <Urchlay> I mean I wrote an IRC client for one of those old machines (Atari 800), so I'm maybe insane too
[07:40] <tewmten> anyone have any tips or suggestions on tools to manage dns zones? :)
[07:44] <Zordrak> tewmten: vim
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[07:49] <steiger> morning all
[07:49] <steiger> of afternoon. idk
[07:49] <DoktoRN> Morning
[07:49] <Urchlay> 8AM, still up from last night :)
[07:50] <DoktoRN> Haha, I was almost - 5.30 something I passed out
[07:53] <tewmten> Zordrak: hehe :D
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[08:12] <Khratos> Good $TIMEOFDAY  :P
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[08:27] <Zordrak> Hey... someone rejected my noobfarm submission
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[08:31] <thrice`> blame Dominus
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[08:31] <thrice`> Dominian*
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[08:34] <Dominian> yeah blame me
[08:34] <Dominian> which one was it?
[08:34] <Dominian> the one about "sendmail" ?
[08:35] <Dominian> If that was the one.. I was trying to understand how it was.. funny :P
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[08:35] Nick change: Aldaron_ -> Aldaron
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[08:36] <vinnie_> does a shell script have to have a '.sh' extension, or is it ok to have NO extension?
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[08:37] <Dominian> It can have no extension
[08:37] <vinnie_> Dominian: cool, thanx
[08:38] <Dominian> np
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[08:40] <slackytude> vinnie_, you usually give it a shebang, tho
[08:40] <thrice`> hehe
[08:40] <slackytude> vinnie_, #!/bin/sh
[08:40] <Urchlay> hey, any KDE experts here? got kind of an abstruse question...
[08:41] <vinnie_> yeah.. thats about the only thing im good at on scripting... lol
[08:41] <slackytude> Urchlay, #kde
[08:41] <Urchlay> yeah, figures
[08:41] <Zordrak> Dominian: the noob was asking insanely simple Qs & not reading docs and then suddenly asked.. "What does sendmail do"
[08:41] <Zordrak> the question in itself is funny
[08:41] <Urchlay> every time I ask this question in #kde, I get blank looks
[08:41] <vinnie_> what does startx do?
[08:41] <vinnie_> :c)
[08:42] <Zordrak> exactly
[08:42] <Urchlay> the sendmail one's worse than the startx one
[08:42] <Zordrak> *nod*
[08:42] <Urchlay> I mean, somebody could legitimately be n00b enough not to know that X is called X
[08:43] <Urchlay> but everyone knows mail is called mail...
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[08:43] <vinnie_> yeah... me about 6 months ago
[08:43] <Zordrak> what does logrotate do?
[08:43] <Zordrak> etc etc
[08:43] <Urchlay> Zordrak: makes your logs dizzy!
[08:43] <vinnie_> Zordrak: thats a divice you by for your fireplace
[08:43] <limac> hehe :P
[08:44] <vinnie_> its a gimic, and dont work though
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[08:44] <Urchlay> logrotate always makes me think of the scottish highland games, where they have a couple of guys standing on floating logs in a river, running in place & making them rotate...
[08:44] <Urchlay> or maybe they're trying to jump from log to log, to cross the river, I dunno
[08:45] <Pig_Pen> lmao!
[08:45] <Urchlay> in fact I may be thinking of something from a cartoon from when I was 6, that doesnt exist in the real world and never did :)
[08:45] <vinnie_> i tried log rolling one when i pooped down a hill
[08:45] <Pig_Pen> lmao!
[08:46] <limac> oh noes Pig_Pen seems to have a Seg Fault.
[08:46] <Zordrak> Dominian: u got anything to do with sbo?
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[08:46] <Pig_Pen> an endless loop
[08:46] <vinnie_> for real though.... i shouldnt be making fun of n00bs. I am just as n00bish still at linux
[08:46] <Zordrak> vinnie_: *nod*
[08:47] <Zordrak> :)
[08:47] <limac> I am a n00b, and I am proud of it :)
[08:47] <slackytude> eternal n00b
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[08:48] <Urchlay> well, apparently I'm mentally still a little kid, is that the same thing?
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[08:48] <DoktoRN> Why these tense feelings?
[08:48] <Zordrak> no
[08:48] <vinnie_> i just wish i would have stayed with Linux when I first tried it back in 2000
[08:48] <Zordrak> little kids > noobs
[08:48] <Zordrak> in capability terms :)
[08:49] <Dominian> Zordrak: negative.. nothing at all to do with SBo.. why do you ask?
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[08:49] <DoktoRN> vinnie_: I know the feeling, I somewhat started in 2007 but was jumping back and forth and Now I'm stable again
[08:49] <Zordrak> Dominian: submission  is fubar
[08:49] <vinnie_> im definately penguin hooked now
[08:50] <Dominian> Zordrak: ahh.. pop into #slackbuilds and let them know
[08:50] <DoktoRN> penguin hooked haha i'm saving that in my quote.txt
[08:50] <Zordrak> did
[08:50] <Zordrak> got a tumbleweed
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[08:53] <Dominian> Zordrak: hrm.. give themt ime.
[08:55] <Zordrak> as if there were another option :)
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[08:56] <Urchlay> they've got a pretty big queue of stuff in pending/, maybe they're busy with that?
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[09:06] <Zordrak> Urchlay: wouldnt expect server error for that
[09:06] <Urchlay> eh, server error?
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[09:08] <Zordrak> yeah
[09:08] <Zordrak> No useful error message, just server error
[09:09] Action: slackytude has to learn databanks
[09:11] <Zordrak> i wish i could remove puzzle from the SF mirrors
[09:11] <Zordrak> 75% of the time i get assigned it and it sucks
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[09:11] <Zordrak> slow links.. bad MD5s.. missing software
[09:12] <Zordrak> heanet.ie ftw!
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[09:15] <Zordrak>  /mode +b *slack*!*@*
[09:16] <Slackiavelli> hmm you said a lot of things i my absence :P
[09:16] <Zordrak> 14:14:56 -!- SlackNeo [n=SlackNeo@190.176.167.125] has joined ##slackware
[09:16] <Zordrak> 14:15:19 -!- Slackiavelli [n=chatzill@196.206.236.248] has joined ##slackware
[09:16] <Zordrak> too many SlackNicks for me
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[09:17] <Slackiavelli> HMMM
[09:17] Action: fred likes his nick :)
[09:17] <Zordrak> i was just pokin fun
[09:17] <Slackiavelli> what about this nick
[09:17] Nick change: Slackiavelli -> Slackadin
[09:17] <Slackadin> :P
[09:17] <Zordrak> slackytude included for example
[09:17] <Slackadin> slackware + saladin = Slackadin
[09:17] <Slackadin> :P
[09:18] <Zordrak> I personally will *not* be becoming Slackdrak
[09:18] <lw0x15_> lol
[09:18] <Dominian> Slackinian?
[09:18] <Slackadin> Zordrak: your nick is hard to pronunciate  :s
[09:18] <Dominian> just doesn't have that same menacing tone..
[09:18] <slackytude> slackware + attitude = slackytude :P
[09:18] <Zordrak> No it's not
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[09:18] <Zordrak> Zor
[09:18] <Zordrak> Drak
[09:19] <Slackadin> ohh that's make time to prononciate :P
[09:19] <Slackadin> I can't remember it
[09:19] <Slackadin> :S
[09:19] <Urchlay> Zordrak: you could stick an /etc/hosts entry for download.sourceforge.net and aliases
[09:19] <Slackadin> you have to make a slackbuilds to facilitate the prononciation :P
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[09:20] <Zordrak> Urchlay: i thought that but was concerned about falling foul of their vhost conf
[09:21] <Zordrak> Urchlay: plus its too many boxes to screw with
[09:21] Nick change: Slackadin -> Saladin
[09:21] <Urchlay> yeah
[09:21] <Zordrak> Saladin++
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[09:21] <Urchlay> it's the kinda thing I'd do at home on my single-user box
[09:21] <Saladin> LOL
[09:22] <Saladin> saladin.php
[09:23] <Urchlay> other idea then: if the bad sf.net server's IP address is stable, an iptables rule with REJECT target
[09:23] <Urchlay> (assuming you've got a linux box acting as router/firewall for the whole network, you only have to do it in one place)
[09:23] <Zordrak> still.. too much for so many boxes
[09:23] <Zordrak> nope
[09:23] <Urchlay> bummer
[09:23] <Zordrak> easier to fudge dns
[09:24] <Urchlay> that was probably gonna be the next thing I said :)
[09:24] Nick change: Saladin -> Makaveli
[09:24] <Zordrak> just none of it's really worth it
[09:24] <Zordrak> it's irritating but not totally obstructive
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[09:24] <Makaveli> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh this is my first nick in undernet :P
[09:25] <Zordrak> undernet ftl
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[09:25] <Makaveli> Zordrak: but there is more girls than here (freenode) :)
[09:26] <Urchlay> McIavelley, from Scotland?
[09:26] <Makaveli> grrrrrrrrrr
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[09:26] <ccfreak2k> REJECT is noisy. Prefer DROP.
[09:26] <Zordrak> If i was after girls i would not use IRC (!)
[09:26] <Zordrak> ccfreak2k++
[09:26] <Makaveli> Urchlay: you don't know who is Nicollo Machiavelli ?
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[09:26] <Urchlay> ccfreak2k: naw, REJECT does what he'd want in that specific case
[09:26] <Makaveli> the king of politic
[09:26] <Zordrak> Makaveli: it was a joke
[09:27] <ccfreak2k> REJECT is ok if you need to tell the host that you don't want connections from them, but in a malicious situation, REJECT could cause backscatter.
[09:27] <Urchlay> yeah but
[09:27] <Makaveli> Zordrak: no forget you are the wrong person to see that :P
[09:27] <Urchlay> this is an outbound rule
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[09:28] <Makaveli> REJECT : inform the third-party that his query is reject so it's not good in security
[09:28] <Urchlay> we're talking about (a) keeping his machines from connecting to the bogus sf.net mirror, and (b) having it return an error immediately (REJECT does that, DROP would pause a good long while)
[09:28] <Makaveli> I think :P
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[09:28] <Urchlay> yes, but security isn't the purpose of this :)
[09:28] <Zordrak> bah
[09:28] <Zordrak> #iptables
[09:29] <Makaveli> there is a firewall iptables base in Slackware
[09:29] <Pig_Pen> bogus sourceforge.net mirror?
[09:29] <Urchlay> you go: wget http://downloads.sourceforget.net/whatever, and that gives you one of about 10-15 IPs... if it gives you the blocked one, you want wget to immediately get "connection refused" so it'll retry (and hopefully resolve a different IP)
[09:29] <Makaveli> I forgot his name :S
[09:29] <Zordrak> Makaveli: its in-kernel
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[09:30] <Makaveli> Zordrak: the netfilter is the module kernel, and Iptables it's just an interface
[09:30] <Zordrak> downloads does a redirect though doesnt it... not failover IPs
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[09:30] <Zordrak> redirect with mod_rewrite
[09:30] <Makaveli> oh yeah slackfire I got it :P
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[09:30] <Makaveli> slackfire.berlios.de/
[09:30] <Urchlay> hrrr, not sure how wget would react to that then
[09:30] <Urchlay> might have to re-run it
[09:31] <Urchlay> instead of it auto-retrying
[09:31] <Zordrak> Urchlay: ^c<up><cr>
[09:31] <Zordrak> :)
[09:32] <Urchlay> yeah, unless it's being run from a script
[09:32] <Zordrak> Urchlay: ^c^c<up><cr>
[09:32] <Urchlay> (a dumb script that doesn't check the exit status, even)
[09:32] <Zordrak> :)
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[09:32] <Urchlay> ...from cron :)
[09:33] <Zordrak> bah... never cron somethingc that DLs from SF
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[09:33] <AzMoo> Hey guys, how can I change the resolution for kdm? I can set 1440x900 fine for users but I can't seem to get kdm to do it.
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[09:33] <Urchlay> I used to have a cronjob that did "cvs export" from SF, and yeah, about half the time it'd fail miserably
[09:34] <Urchlay> well, until I added a loop with exponential backoff
[09:34] <Urchlay> (with a limit! Without the limit it'd still be running the next day sometimes...)
[09:37] <_RadioHead> for virtual users on vsftpd do i need pam or i can use only DB?
[09:38] <Zordrak> !pam
[09:38] <Zordrak> evar
[09:38] <ananke> AzMoo : uhmm, kdm should be using whatever your resolution for X is
[09:39] <thrice`> ananke: question for ya?
[09:39] <Urchlay> hm, is there a way to do weird authentication methods like smartcards or fingerprint scanners without using pam?
[09:39] <Urchlay> (not that I really want to use such a thing anyway, just idle curiosity)
[09:40] <AzMoo> ananke, That's what I thought too, but in my xorg.conf 1440x900 is the only resolution set, but kdm is something stupid like 2048xwhatever
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[09:40] <ananke> Urchlay : very unlikely. i've never found a way to use them without pam
[09:41] <ananke> AzMoo : kdm is using a resolution that's not defined anywhere in your xorg.conf?
[09:41] <ccfreak2k> Maybe X is discarding your setting and going for the maximum that your monitor supports.
[09:41] <AzMoo> ananke, yes
[09:41] <AzMoo> ccfreak2k, that's plausible. Why would it do that?
[09:41] <agentc0re> AzMoo: what does your xorg log's say?
[09:42] <ccfreak2k> AzMoo, not sure, but I think X start doing that in Slackware 12.
[09:43] <_RadioHead> AzMoo: if u have any xorg.conf on your /root and use kdm command as a root could be possible kdm read your /root/xorg.conf
[09:43] <AzMoo> it says: Not using mode "1440x900" (no mode of this name)
[09:43] <_RadioHead> yo ananke  :)
[09:44] <_RadioHead> AzMoo: you have on xorg.conf Modes "1440x900" ?
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[09:44] <AzMoo> _RadioHead, there's a .xinitrc
[09:44] <AzMoo> _RadioHead, yes
[09:45] <_RadioHead> i use this mode on my pc
[09:45] <AzMoo> This is on VMWare if that's relevant at all
[09:45] <kjell> Do I need to do anything special with my newly retrieved computer to be able to install slackware to it? Like, do a special format or something hence the harddrive is new?
[09:46] <agentc0re> AzMoo: have you tried rerunning xorgconfig to see if that fixes it?
[09:47] <_RadioHead> AzMoo: as agentc0re say try to reconfigure, fisrt backup your config ... and then try to fix it
[09:47] <agentc0re> AzMoo: or xorgsetup, that'll probably be better.
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[09:47] <AzMoo> yup, doing it now. If I disappear it's because I'm restarting X
[09:48] <AzMoo> cheers
[09:48] <Zordrak> agentc0re$ whatprovides wx-config
[09:48] <Zordrak> bugger
[09:48] <Zordrak> agentc0re$ sudo whatprovides wx-config
[09:48] <Zordrak> :)
[09:48] <agentc0re> ?
[09:48] <Zordrak> for bwx
[09:48] <thrice`> ananke: I have a question about your slamd64 mirror; it doesnt' seem to be updating itself
[09:48] <agentc0re> oh ya ya..
[09:48] <agentc0re> bacula.
[09:48] <agentc0re> right?
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[09:49] <Zordrak> im building SBo's three wxFoo's atm
[09:49] <Zordrak> taking forever!
[09:49] <Zordrak> aye
[09:49] <agentc0re> i just woke up, brain isn't not working after only 3 hours of sleep :(
[09:49] <agentc0re> i can't remember.
[09:50] <Khratos> You should get some rest agentc0re
[09:50] <agentc0re> wxWidgets maybe?
[09:50] Action: Zordrak needs to just: `sbopkg install-all`
[09:50] <Zordrak> then leave it for 96 hours and come back
[09:50] <Urchlay> Zordrak: does that even work?
[09:50] <Zordrak> err.. no
[09:51] <agentc0re> i woke up cuz of pain, so i took one of my percocets... just waiting for it to kick in to go back to sleep :)
[09:51] <Urchlay> I mean, could it even work? no dependency info so it wouldn't know the right order to build stuff in...
[09:51] <Zordrak> agentc0re: just migrate to GMT instead
[09:51] <_RadioHead> what to use vsftpd or proftpd? any advice :)
[09:51] <Zordrak> Urchlay: i
[09:51] <Zordrak> Urchlay: was
[09:51] <Zordrak> Urchlay: joking
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[09:51] <Urchlay> yeah, and I'm avoiding work :)
[09:52] <Zordrak> _RadioHead: vsftpd
[09:52] <Urchlay> (for reference: I've never even looked at sbopkg... no idea what it does/doesnt do)
[09:52] <Zordrak> Urchlay: do it
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[09:53] <_chess_> Zordrak: you could make one large build queue of everything in the repo, with the deps in the right order :-)
[09:53] <Zordrak> _chess_: and you would be an insane noobtard too
[09:53] <_chess_> haha
[09:53] <Zordrak> you *could* whap your balls out at an air hostess... i dont recommend it!
[09:53] <thrice`> wtf
[09:54] <Urchlay> "my computer is too fast, I need to find some monumental task for it to do, to slow it down"
[09:55] <_RadioHead> kde 4.2.0 is much improved then kde 4.1
[09:55] <_RadioHead> i like it
[09:55] <agentc0re> Urchlay: build a kernel with make -j7 :P
[09:56] <Urchlay> actually used to like the "build the kernel overnight in a loop" method of system burn-in
[09:57] <Urchlay> pretty good at triggering hardware infant death syndrome
[09:58] <Zordrak> someone noobfarm 14:53:02 < _chess_> to 14:53:57 < thrice> for me :) i cant copy/paste
[09:59] <Zordrak> im not usually one to laugh at my own but that one made me piss myself... as soon as thrice` said WTF
[09:59] <thrice`> hehe
[09:59] <Dominian> noobfarm it
[09:59] <Dominian> it'll make it ;0
[10:00] <Zordrak> trying to do those 5 lines... but cant c&p on this terminal
[10:00] <Zordrak> links wont take the paste
[10:00] <thrice`> ananke's mirror is very nice, but it's simply not being synced properly :|
[10:01] <Dominian> ananke: ping
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[10:03] <Zordrak> tff for the public logs :)
[10:03] Action: agentc0re thinks the percocet is kicking in... Ahh.......
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[10:09] <agentc0re> if i wanted to actually try kde 4.2 out, is upgrading to -current the only way or can i do it another?
[10:09] <agentc0re> another way.
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[10:11] <thrice`> the packages in -current will work on your 12.2 install
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[10:11] <dTd> they wrok well in fact :)
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[10:12] <dTd> s/wrok/work
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[10:13] <alienBOB> The fun of KDE4.2 plasma widgets is that you can place widgets on your screensaver (be sure to set the widget to 'transparent'). Screensaver kicks in, nice visuals, but when you move the mouse you will suddenly see the widgets. The widget I use is "leave a note" so that other users can type in a small message while I am away
[10:13] <spook> thats cool.
[10:14] <fred> alienBOB: I don't think I've ever seen that applet not being abused :p
[10:14] <spook> alienBOB: it would be even better if it made a show of taking the newly left note and putting it in the bin
[10:15] <spook> so i have 2tb of disk space.
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[10:16] <Zordrak> alienBOB: any idea why SBo submissions are borked?
[10:16] <spook> if i have a raid 10 array, with 4 disks, and i want to add 2 disks to the array, can i grow it non-destructively?
[10:16] <spook> would using lvm help?
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[10:17] <agentc0re> alienBOB: BTW, thanks for all your hard work for kde 4.  From reading the readme's it sounds like a lot of late and frustrating nights.
[10:17] <alienBOB> agentc0re: never frustrating
[10:17] <alienBOB> Long nights yes
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[10:24] Nick change: SlackNeo_ -> SlackNeo
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[10:27] Action: Zordrak puts his money on a full FS or a dead DB server
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[10:30] <euzao> wherre is mpd autoloader?
[10:31] <euzao> isn't it at /etc/rc.d?
[10:32] <Zordrak> mpd isnt in slack afaik
[10:34] <_chess_> it's at SBo
[10:34] <Zordrak> indeed
[10:34] <thrice`> :)
[10:34] <thrice`> I had thought about adding an rc.mpd before
[10:34] <Zordrak> rc.clue would be more useful
[10:35] <Zordrak> on the upside.. my slackware-12.2-iso torrent ratio just passed 32 :)
[10:36] <agentc0re> i'm trying to use the find command to rename all the .kde dir's in my user home directories to .kde3.  How do i get it to rename it in the current directory instead of it trying to move them?
[10:36] <agentc0re> find /home -type d -name ".kde" -exec mv{} .kde3 \;
[10:36] <agentc0re> thats what i have so far.
[10:36] <Zordrak> agentc0re: man rename
[10:37] <Urchlay> rename kde kde3 /home/*/.kde
[10:37] <Urchlay> oh, sorry
[10:37] <Urchlay> I mean... man rename!
[10:37] <Zordrak> lol
[10:37] <agentc0re> lol
[10:37] <thrice`> agentc0re: does yours not work?  that looks ok
[10:37] <agentc0re> looks like i was trying to do it the hard way.
[10:37] <agentc0re> thrice`: it moves it to my current working directory instead.
[10:38] <Zordrak> rename is one f those apps with a particularly clear, simple and useful manpage
[10:38] <Urchlay> you'll want $(dirname) in there somewhere
[10:38] <Zordrak> wasnt being obtuse :)
[10:38] <Urchlay> (to use the find method)
[10:40] (##slackware) Channel ban on *!*@catv-86-101-111-174.catv.broadband.hu expired.
[10:40] ##slackware: mode change '-b *!*@catv-86-101-111-174.catv.broadband.hu' by slackboy!n=thongson@li6-30.members.linode.com
[10:40] <alienBOB> Zordrak: no idea what is going on with the submission form but we're looking into it
[10:40] <Urchlay> or something godsawful like... find /home -type d -name .kde | sed 's/\(.*\)/mv \1 \13/' | sh
[10:40] <Urchlay> (oddly, \13 doesn't confuse sed like I thought it would...)
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[10:43] <agentc0re> .. rename looks like it only renames files not directories so that wouldn't work.
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[10:44] <Old_Fogie> if dir is "test" , # mv test/ test2/  <-- is a rename
[10:45] <Urchlay> heh, I screwed up... should be "type -d -a -name .kde"... ah well
[10:45] <agentc0re> Urchlay: that'd didn't work either.
[10:45] <agentc0re> oh, let me try using quotes that way instead.
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[10:46] <agentc0re> i just put them around ".kde"
[10:46] <Urchlay> no, the quotes don't belong there
[10:46] <Urchlay> find /home -type d -a -name .kde | sed 's/\(.*\)/mv \1 \13/'
[10:46] <Urchlay> should print out a bunch of mv commands
[10:46] <Urchlay> if they look right, add |sh to the end of the line
[10:46] <Urchlay> or just use rename (it does work on directories)
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[10:47] <Urchlay> (I was missing the -a the first time around)
[10:47] <agentc0re> Urchlay: hrmm.  didn't print out any directories and i actually got lazy and used your rename command which gave me an error...  :P  i'll dig deeper into it.
[10:49] <Urchlay> well WTF, "find /home -type d -a -name .kde" doesn't do jack
[10:49] <Zordrak> alienBOB: kk, ta
[10:49] <Urchlay> oh. Because /home is a symlink on this box
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[10:49] <Old_Fogie> fail
[10:50] <Urchlay> what, you think making /home a symlink is failure?
[10:50] <Urchlay> or my find command is?
[10:50] <agentc0re> HAHAH
[10:50] <agentc0re> okay so i know whats going on on my end why it didn't work.
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[10:51] <Urchlay> I have a 900 gig RAID array mounted at /export, so I made my home dir /export/home/urchlay... and I made the /home symlink because I kept typing /home/urchlay by habit...
[10:52] <agentc0re> lol, i was ssh'd into my damn firewall on the terminal tab i was trying to use :P  lol.  man thats what happens when you're high on percocet eh?
[10:52] <agentc0re> lol
[10:52] <spook> if i have a raid 10 array, with 4 disks, and i want to add 2 disks to the array, can i grow it non-destructively?  would using lvm help?
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[10:52] <agentc0re> spook: yes, lvm would help.
[10:52] <agentc0re> i have a raid 10 with 6 disks.
[10:52] <spook> its more about the non destructive growing of the array.
[10:52] <agentc0re> i did mirror sets using mdadm and then striped everything together with lvm.
[10:53] <spook> oh...
[10:53] <spook> is that really raid 10?
[10:53] <straterra> kinda
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[10:53] <Zordrak> agentc0re: mhy not raid6Z
[10:53] <Urchlay> sure, in spirit if not in letter
[10:53] <Zordrak> agentc0re: why not raid6?
[10:53] <agentc0re> yes, mirrored first, striped second.
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[10:54] <agentc0re> Zordrak: no good reason other than i didn't want to.
[10:54] <spook> *%@# with your raid 6
[10:54] <Zordrak> spook: o...k
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[10:55] Action: spook doesnt like raid6
[10:55] <Zordrak> i gathered
[10:55] <Zordrak> the reason eludes me
[10:55] <agentc0re> i'm not really a big fan of parity raids.
[10:55] <Zordrak> i dont like r5.. but i do like r6
[10:56] <spook> parity raids are horrible
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[10:56] <Urchlay> Zordrak: I don't suppose there's a nondestructive way to convert a raid5 array to raid6?
[10:57] <Zordrak> Urchlay: i dont see why it shoulnt be possible
[10:57] <spook> Urchlay: i'll do it for you, but i cant guarentee that it will be non destructive
[10:57] <agentc0re> r5 is going to be phased out.  i read something(and thought i mentioned it once or twice here) about how raid5 just will not work with how drives keep getting larger and larger.
[10:57] <Urchlay> cause I really wish I'd made this a raid6 array (I didn't know about raid6 back when I first built it...)
[10:57] Action: spook dusts off his sledge hammer
[10:57] <Urchlay> spook: heh.
[10:57] <Zordrak> agentc0re: its because of hot spare rebuild times
[10:57] <spook> with drive space being so cheap, parity raids are stupid and cheap.
[10:57] <Dominian> raid 6 requires how many drives?
[10:57] <agentc0re> spook: exactly.
[10:57] <Urchlay> raid6 would have the same rebuild time problem though?
[10:57] <spook> Dominian: like 4
[10:57] <Dominian> oh that's it?
[10:57] <Dominian> wow
[10:58] <Zordrak> agentc0re: with big sizes you're too likely to lose a 2nd disk before the rebuild is complete
[10:58] <spook> and when in degraded, raid 5 and probally 6 are at their most stress
[10:58] <agentc0re> Dominian: basicly raid6 is just two parity drives instead of one.
[10:58] <Dominian> right
[10:58] <Dominian> Just do raid 10
[10:58] <Dominian> to hell with it
[10:58] <spook> exactly
[10:58] <Dominian> hehe
[10:58] <Zordrak> Urchlay: raid6 can handle a double disk failure
[10:58] <spook> thats what i'm doing
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[10:58] <spook> Zordrak: so can raid 2
[10:58] <agentc0re> Zordrak: so can raid10, as long as it's not in the same mirrored set.
[10:59] <spook> it can detect 3 failures and recover from 2
[10:59] <Zordrak> agentc0re: but.. theyre not the same parity mothod
[10:59] <Zordrak> one horiz one diag
[10:59] <spook> agentc0re: naively assuming you only use 2 disks per mirrored set
[10:59] <agentc0re> spook: Ah.. there's another way?
[10:59] <Urchlay> Zordrak: I know. But even if only 1 disk fails, it has to be rebuilt, same as raid5 would
[11:00] <Zordrak> the other issue is waste
[11:00] <spook> agentc0re: 9 disks, 3 wide striped, 3 deep mirrored
[11:00] <Zordrak> iirc 6 gives a *lot* more usable capacityf per GB than 10
[11:00] <spook> raid 2 is the best raid.
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[11:00] <agentc0re> spook: :P  find, get ridiculous :D
[11:00] <spook> i bet no one knows what raid 2 is either
[11:00] <agentc0re> s/find/fine
[11:00] <Zordrak> hence why all the NetApp NAS stuff is RAID6
[11:00] <Zordrak> (ish)
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[11:01] <agentc0re> spook: nope, no clue.  i know it exists, same with 3 and 4... but don't know much about them.
[11:01] <spook> raid 2 uses 7 disks, 4 data, 3 check
[11:01] <Dominian> http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/perf/raid/levels/singleLevel2-c.html
[11:01] <spook> can recover from 2 corruptions/failures, and detect 3.
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[11:06] <spook> so yeah, raid 1s plus lvm striping sounds like it might be a good way to go
[11:06] Action: ananke is partial to raid6 these days
[11:06] <Zordrak> ananke++
[11:06] <spook> ananke: shut your filthy hole.
[11:06] <Zordrak> ananke: don't mind him.. he whapped his balls out at an air hostess earlier :)
[11:06] <ananke> spook : crawl back to your mommy's basement
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[11:09] <spook> now that partitioning sorted out, how about the filesystem...
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[11:10] <agentc0re> spook: there are two ways to go about it.
[11:11] <agentc0re> partition your disks all the same
[11:11] <agentc0re> or use lvm to do "partitions"
[11:11] <agentc0re> i personally partitioned my disks all the same.
[11:11] <spook> i have 2 x 1tb samsung, 2 x 1tb wd.
[11:12] <agentc0re> then mirrored the partions in sets.   sd[ab]1 sd[cd]1 sd[ef]1  ... and so on.
[11:12] <ananke> ohh, you haz drivez?
[11:12] <Urchlay> spook: how much did you get those for? /me needs new drives...
[11:12] <Zordrak> agentc0re: why'd you put the bacula scripts it /etc/bacula ?
[11:13] <agentc0re> Zordrak: .. i dunno i wasn't thinking right.
[11:13] <Zordrak> lol
[11:13] <spook> Urchlay: like 6,700 AUD
[11:13] <Zordrak> trying to decide between /usr/bin and /usr/bin/bacula
[11:13] <spook> see the plan is for the long term, one of each drive in a mirror set
[11:13] <agentc0re> Zordrak: do /usr/bin ftw
[11:14] <Zordrak> *nod*
[11:14] <Zordrak> but mould be useful to have them all in one dir
[11:14] <Zordrak> they they have no name similarity
[11:15] <Urchlay> spook: how long ago was that? thought terabyte drives were cheaper... or are these really nice (scsi or fc)?
[11:15] <Zordrak> spook: am kinda doing that at home... have offline 1:1 mirrors for each 400GB disk
[11:15] <spook> Urchlay: note the AUD
[11:15] <spook> and today, at-cost
[11:15] <Urchlay> yeah, according to whatever web page I just used to convert, that's $4500 US
[11:15] <spook> 1AUD = 0.667 USD currently
[11:15] <spook> Urchlay: 6-700
[11:16] <Urchlay> oh, you said 6,700 and I thought it was 6700...
[11:16] <Zordrak> PATH isnt recursive is it?
[11:16] <Urchlay> Zordrak: how so?
[11:16] Action: Zordrak smacks self
[11:16] <agentc0re> spook: http://pastebin.learnix.net/9
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[11:17] <euzao> how do I discover if I have some library that aren't being used?
[11:17] <spook> agentc0re: i have a 30gb pata drive for the system.
[11:18] <spook> euzao: no.
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[11:18] <spook> euzao: dont go down that path.
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[11:18] <nightf0x09> any gui pkgtool?
[11:18] <euzao> spook, ?
[11:18] <spook> euzao: just forget you ever thought that and go about your business
[11:18] <agentc0re> nightf0x09: Yeah, pkgtool
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[11:19] <Old_Fogie> pkgtool is gui
[11:19] <Zordrak> agentc0re: of COURSE
[11:19] <Zordrak> agentc0re: /usr/libexec/bacula
[11:19] <euzao> spook, so I guess it is not important
[11:19] <nightf0x09> wanted to say for x server
[11:19] <agentc0re> ...fail
[11:19] <BP{k}> nightf0x09: no.
[11:19] <Necos> pkgtool is for sissies... use installpkg / removepkg =p
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[11:20] <Zordrak> agentc0re: whofail
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[11:20] <agentc0re> Zordrak: /usr/bin ftw!
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[11:20] <spook> make menuconfig > make xconfig
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[11:20] <Zordrak> theyre not binaries
[11:20] <spook> ncurses > *
[11:21] <agentc0re> Zordrak: Bah, do they run and "do" something? :P
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[11:22] <agentc0re> Zordrak: Fine, /etc/bacula FTW!
[11:22] <Zordrak> i feel where you're coming from... but in this case /usr/libexec/bacula just seems *right8#
[11:22] <Zordrak> *right*
[11:22] <spook> more like /usr/raid6sucks/bacula
[11:22] <spook> [ in bed ]
[11:23] <Necos> lol
[11:23] <Zordrak> compare with the rest of the contents of /usr/libexec
[11:23] <agentc0re> hahah.
[11:23] <spook> someone HAS to noobfarm that
[11:23] <Zordrak> spook: [ in jail ]  <-- after the ball-whapping incident
[11:24] <Necos> lol
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[11:25] <ananke> mental retardation knows no limits
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[11:25] <spook> [ in bed ]
[11:25] Nick change: renew01 -> renew02
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[11:27] <agentc0re> ananke: i thought of this when you said that... not sure why: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~g-b-dix/arguing1.jpg
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[11:28] <spook> [ in bed ] [[ in bed ]]
[11:30] <pip> slackd00d: /j #linux
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[11:31] <spook> ...?
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[11:31] <rk4n3> that came  out of nowhere
[11:32] <rk4n3> I take offense at that "arguing on the internet" picture ...
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[11:34] <rk4n3> ... some debate resembles arguing, yet is still valuable, whether in person or in writing over the internet ... but the kid is hilarious :)
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[11:38] <Old_Fogie> rk4n3, so many arguments are just from people not "getting" what the other person said.  Seems you can say the "sky is blue" and someone will think that you think "the sky is [insert foolishness here]".
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[11:38] <rworkman> The sky is not depressed. That's a dumb statement. You are an idiot.
[11:39] <Old_Fogie> see! there ya go! :)
[11:39] <rk4n3> Old_Fogie:  what ? you're nuts - the sky's not foolish !   hahaha :)
[11:39] <Old_Fogie> man I totally whacked my freebsd box (user error for sure)
[11:40] <agentc0re> Old_Fogie: and a lot of it mostly comes from a lack of communication skills.  for example someone came in here yesterday and couldn't correctly express the issue they were having, told someone to go suck it and got kicked.
[11:40] Nick change: renew02 -> renew_
[11:40] <rk4n3> agentc0re:  that's like a double-whammy - poor communication *and* social skills
[11:41] <Zordrak> Old_Fogie: i gave up on a discussion earlier for exactly that reason
[11:41] <Old_Fogie> agentc0re, oh for sure, yup.  And let's not forget, some things spoken aren't the same when typed, and that's not even counting the fact that people here (for example only) are/could be from different country, etc etc.
[11:41] <agentc0re> rk4n3: lol, it is isn't it? :D
[11:41] <Zordrak> Old_Fogie: i said "i dont mean x"  (verbatim except for x)
[11:41] <agentc0re> Old_Fogie: very true.
[11:41] <Zordrak> Old_Fogie: he said,,, so you're saying that x .."
[11:42] <Old_Fogie> I just love when you say one thing...and someone totally takes it out of context... "Old_Fogie do you mean..." and I say to myself..."Where in the _world_ did he/she get the implication that I said XYZ" haha
[11:42] <ananke> 'go suck it' has pretty much the same meaning, regardless of medium :)
[11:42] <Old_Fogie> ananke, ah yes, but say that to your ladyfriend (or boyfriend) and has a totally diff meaning :)
[11:43] <rk4n3> [ in bed ]
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[11:43] <Necos> lol
[11:43] <Old_Fogie> rk4n3, right on!
[11:43] <rk4n3> :)
[11:43] <agentc0re> ananke: But what if he could read minds and new the other person just wanted a Popsicle? :P
[11:43] <ananke> Old_Fogie : at which point the medium doesn't matter, but the context
[11:43] <Necos> that was awesome
[11:43] <rworkman> Yes, it means "I don't want you to suck it for weeks because you'll be pissed off."
[11:43] <Zordrak> theres jus about only one definitive statement.
[11:43] <Zordrak> FRO
[11:43] <Necos> eh?
[11:44] <Old_Fogie> fro? like afro?
[11:44] <Necos> fried rogue onions?
[11:44] <agentc0re> lol
[11:44] <Old_Fogie> oh see, type a word...someone else thinks something other
[11:44] <limac> the next slackware release will not have KDE 4 as the default, will it?
[11:44] <Zordrak> like "Fuck. Right. Off."
[11:44] <ananke> Old_Fogie : would that be with an apostrophe? fro'
[11:44] Action: limac is not that bigga fan of KDE4
[11:44] <Necos> limac, no
[11:44] <Old_Fogie> ananke, not sure really
[11:44] <Necos> for the 104925395639165091652052052th time
[11:44] <rworkman> limac: that's still unknown.  At this point, I *think* that's the plan, but nothing is ever set in stone.
[11:45] <Urchlay> heh. If I hated KDE 1 through 3, will I also hate KDE 4?
[11:45] <ananke> Urchlay : yes
[11:45] <agentc0re> Urchlay: No :P
[11:45] <Old_Fogie> Slackware has gnome as alternate for primary desktop if KDE 4.X isn't ready yet is what I heard.
[11:45] <Urchlay> yeah. Rhetorical-ish question...
[11:45] <limac> There is this blog, that says all linux distros coming up with use KDE4 as the default.
[11:45] <rk4n3> Urchlay:  depends on how much stock you put into inductive reasoning :)
[11:45] <Necos> lol
[11:45] <rworkman> I don't know.  I find that KDE 4 is *more* usable in many respects.
[11:45] <ag3ntugly> Old_Fogie: since when?
[11:45] <Necos> limac, so, that's a blog... do you think pat reads that blog?
[11:46] <Urchlay> I guess the question really is... "Is KDE 4 very different from KDE 1/2/3"?
[11:46] <Old_Fogie> ag3ntugly, shhhh! it's a surprise :) heh kidding
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[11:46] <ag3ntugly> i cried when slack stopped shipping with gnome, so dont toy with me
[11:46] <ananke> personally, as a long term kde user, i find kde 4 quite annoying. i understand some things needed to be changed, but some things were changed for the hell of it.
[11:46] <Urchlay> if it's 80% the same as KDE 3, no point in my thinking about it...
[11:46] <Zordrak> ag3ntugly: dieplskthx
[11:46] <Old_Fogie> rworkman, yes but is it (a) Mrs. Rworkman ready? (b) a XFCE replacement for Mr. Rworkman?
[11:46] <ananke> Urchlay : it depends on what you didn't like about kde
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[11:46] <limac> rworkman: well maybe, but there was this bug with 4.1.3 that every time you minimize KDevelop and then when you restore it, the window turns black, not sure if that problem has been fixed yet.
[11:47] <Old_Fogie> rworkman, just wondering what you find there so far
[11:47] <limac> sorry I don't think I reported that bug to the devel team.
[11:47] <Urchlay> ananke: yeah... honestly I think I just don't like the idea of an all-encompassing desktop environment... cause I didn't like any version of gnome much either
[11:47] Action: Urchlay sticks with windowmaker and a bunch of xterms
[11:48] <rworkman> ananke basically summed it up.  Whether you like kde4 depends on what you did and didn't like about previous versions.
[11:48] <_chess_> KDE{1,2,3} never clicked with me but I kinda like some aspects of KDE4
[11:48] <rworkman> limac: re that bug, probably fixed. 4.0 to 4.1 to 4.2 are big improvements.
[11:48] <ananke> Urchlay : in which case, it's quite clear you wouldn't like kde4
[11:48] <Zordrak> * > gnome
[11:48] <Urchlay> yeah
[11:48] <Zordrak> .
[11:48] <ag3ntugly> ...
[11:48] Action: ag3ntugly gets out his dueling glove
[11:48] <ag3ntugly> you wanna say that one more time?
[11:48] <Zordrak> * > gnome
[11:48] <Zordrak> .
[11:48] <ag3ntugly> *smack*
[11:48] <limac> rworkman: alright cool, I'll just give KDE4 another go. ;)
[11:49] <ag3ntugly> you sir have offended my honor
[11:49] <Urchlay> tho I do run some of the KDE apps
[11:49] <Urchlay> hehheh
[11:49] <Old_Fogie> I just don't get the "we want to look like mac" thing.  I find kde4 really alot like mac.  Maybe need some more themes I suppose.  But I'm gonna give it time , they're still working on it.
[11:49] <Zordrak> you want offence?
[11:49] <Necos> limac, take what you read on blogs with a grain of salt... unless it's said by the maintainer of the distro
[11:49] <agentc0re> ag3ntugly: honor for little people?
[11:49] <Zordrak> Win ME > gnome
[11:49] <Necos> ewwww
[11:49] <rk4n3> oooooooo
[11:49] <ananke> Zordrak : i don't know what i find more annoying: spamming the channel twice, using some ol' tired internet meme to signify superiority of one product over another, or the troll behind it
[11:49] <limac> Necos: copy that ;)
[11:49] Action: ag3ntugly is now dead, thanks a LOT
[11:49] <rworkman> I've pulled all the kde for windows stuff, and planning to give all that a shot in a vm. If it works for the most part, I'll probably install it on the wife's Vista box :)
[11:49] <thrice`> ananke: ping ?
[11:49] <Zordrak> ananke: he asked me to say it again
[11:49] <ananke> thrice` : yes?
[11:50] <Old_Fogie> Zordrak, honestly gnome scales better than kde 3 (at least) on a netbook, fwiw.
[11:50] <thrice`> ananke: can you check your mirror syncing, by chance?  I think it died last month sometime :)
[11:50] <Zordrak> Old_Fogie: fnuff
[11:50] <limac> KDE4 is available(the latest one) in /extra right?
[11:50] <BP{k}> limac: yes.
[11:50] <ananke> Urchlay : and people find that vista looks like mac. and that mac looks like kde. and that kde looks like mac. there is a reason behind it
[11:50] <limac> cool :0
[11:50] <limac> :)
[11:50] <Zordrak> Old_Fogie: but wouldnt you use *box for the better performance on a netbook?
[11:50] <thrice`> limac: /testing, but yes
[11:50] <agentc0re> limac: no, testing.
[11:50] <ag3ntugly> i dont hate kde perse, its not bad, but its too much for me, but ive been dealing with it beacuse like dropline gnome was a pain
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[11:50] <ananke> thrice` : doh, i think i know why :)
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[11:51] <thrice`> ananke: I didn't check all, but at least slackware and slamd64, anyway :)
[11:51] <limac> oh ok.
[11:51] <ananke> thrice` : i changed the OS on that machine, and i 'thought' i restored all functionality. it seems i forgot about the cron jobs
[11:52] <rk4n3> Old_Fogie:  I think there are a couple of details in the Mac's look that have fairly universal appeal, and that's why many have "latched" onto the look
[11:52] <_chess_> I've decided that I definitely prefer tiling wm's over huge DE's
[11:52] <thrice`> ananke: ah, ok; didn't mean to bug you, just noticed it this morning
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[11:52] <Zordrak> _chess_++
[11:52] <Necos> the mac look is ugly >.>
[11:52] <ananke> thrice` : thanks, i was wondering why i haven't seen updates in a while
[11:53] Action: ananke fires up rsyncs
[11:53] <_chess_> all I ever have open is a bunch of terminals anyway plus firefox, so no need for all the bells and whistles
[11:53] <rk4n3> Necos:  perhaps, but you have to admin, those semi-real-looking glass-LED-style buttons are pretty darn cool
[11:53] <rk4n3> s/admin/admit
[11:53] <Old_Fogie> Zordrak, well you still have the applications side of using the pc as well, configuration boxes, dialog boxes etc.  So more times than not, the gnome and/or gtk stuff is more suited at present I find for day in day out use on the netbook.  I've read that the photon in kde4 is supposed to address that, so I'm looking forward to see what kde4 does.
[11:53] <ananke> _chess_ : i also have tons of terminals open, yet i find the extra kde functionality very useful
[11:55] <Old_Fogie> rk4n3, re: 'latched' ; yes I suppose, but I'm not an apple user, so to me (and family) it's all new, different.  change is good, but I really (and it's a taste thing) "get the we want to be like mac" .
[11:55] <_chess_> I do think KDE4 is pretty cool for a full DE
[11:55] <Zordrak> Old_Fogie: i wlt play with kde4 but until people stop talking about it as a testing env and start talking about it as an alternative.. i cant be arsed to find the time
[11:55] <Old_Fogie> I dunno, I think gnome all decked out is prettier than mac, but yea it's a taste thing.
[11:55] <BP{k}> I am gonna kde4 a go once I finished syncing with the mirrrors
[11:56] <_chess_> damn, choice is good, ain't it?
[11:56] <BP{k}> _chess_: aye.
[11:56] <ananke> i tried kde 4.2 this morning for 30 mins. gave up after that
[11:56] <Old_Fogie> choic is good for sure
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[11:57] <Old_Fogie> ananke, stuff too different ? or stuff non-existent that your used to at this time?
[11:57] Action: _chess_ eyes the icewm update at SBo and considers digging out his icewm configs
[11:58] <limac> is it recommended that I run remove-kde3.sh after installing KDE4?
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[11:58] <thrice`> limac: before you install would make sense :)
[11:58] <_chess_> just don't run remove-kde4.sh after installing :-)
[11:58] <ananke> Old_Fogie : 1) no migration tools. i would have to configure kmail/kontact/knode/etc from scratch, simply didn't have time to. 2) konsole no longer has -ls option [for login shell], VERY annoying. 3) keyboard shortcuts in konsole are different, for whatever reason. no longer ctrl-alt-key , but ctrl-shift-key
[11:59] <limac> thrice`: I'll give that a go :P
[11:59] <limac> _chess_: will do ;)
[11:59] <SM177Y> hey how do i deny specific users logins for ssh? i just want this limited user i made to be available using ssh just for tunnelling
[11:59] <rworkman> SM177Y: see sshd_config(5)
[11:59] <ananke> SM177Y : man sshd_config, search for deny and/or allow
[11:59] <SM177Y> so i want to just deny all users except say sshtunneler er somethin
[11:59] <SM177Y> alrighgt
[11:59] <SM177Y> thx
[12:00] <Urchlay> ananke: no login shell CLI option, or no login shell option at all even in the menus?
[12:00] <rworkman> AllowUsers is going to be your best bet.
[12:00] <Old_Fogie> ananke, aha I see.  yes someone with as many terms going...for years to all of sudden be told to change shortcuts is huge.  I'm shocked they have no import feature for kontact stuff..thanks for pointing that out.
[12:00] <_chess_> or a /bin/false shell
[12:00] <BP{k}> yeah. the kontact stuff is good know considering I use it pretty intensly
[12:00] <ananke> Urchlay : no option for login shell in konsole. as you're aware, most X terminals can either do non-login shell, or a login shell. they removed that switch in kde4's konsole app
[12:01] <Old_Fogie> kontact is fantastic, rips thru imap and does syncml ( /me pets his syncml :)
[12:01] <thrice`> the new kmail is pretty nice in 4.2, however
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[12:01] <ananke> considering i had to start on my work stuff, i simply didn't have the time to spend 30 or so mins configuring kmail/knode/akregator/etc from scratch
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[12:02] <rworkman> ananke: hrm, didn't I "fix" that in the early 4.x builds?
[12:02] <rworkman> The other points are valid regardless though. Migration is a bitch.
[12:02] <ananke> rworkman : which part?
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[12:02] <rworkman> ananke: the login shell issue.  I *thought* I had patched the .desktop file
[12:03] <ananke> rworkman : this is on another distro
[12:03] <rworkman> ah
[12:03] <rworkman> sed -i 's/Exec=konsole/Exec=konsole -e $SHELL -l/' \ $PKG/usr/share/applications/kde4/konsole.desktop
[12:03] <ananke> but the point remains - they changed the behavior, and i had to research it to find out
[12:03] <rworkman> indeed
[12:03] <Old_Fogie> they kde devs I hope will spend time on migration tools, else kde4 is going to have opposition/procrastination.  that's one nice thing with evolution, you can back up the configs and data in file pull down menu.
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[12:04] <Old_Fogie> tho, kontact can rip thru exporting contacts.  I dumped a 30,000 name address book in seconds on a ancient box here.  I was shocked.
[12:05] <Dominian> ananke: your slamd64/slackware mirrors don't appear to be updating.. just an FYI
[12:05] <Urchlay> ananke: ouch. That's completely nonsensical... why would they want to do such a thing?
[12:05] <ananke> Dominian : thank you, thrice` just pointed it out. i'm running a manual sync
[12:05] <Dominian> ananke: hehe cool
[12:05] <nix_chix0r> morning folks
[12:05] <rworkman> Urchlay: I personally don't like the "always use a login shell" idea.  I think it better for the user to learn about shell invocation.
[12:05] <ananke> Urchlay : no clue, considering that the previous konsole had this functionality
[12:05] <Dominian> ananke: the only reason my mirror updates... fred tells me when hes done.. I kick off the script hehe
[12:06] <rworkman> However, I also don't like the fact that they removed the ability.
[12:06] <Urchlay> rworkman: well AFAIK most terminal apps default to non-login shell... so the user has to learn what a login shell is, and how to enable it, at laest :)
[12:06] <ananke> rworkman :exactly. the way i invoke konsole is via alt+f2, and i type either konsole, or konsole -ls, depending on what i want
[12:06] <rworkman> right @both :)
[12:07] <rworkman> ananke: and for you, knowing about shell invocation isn't a solution.
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[12:07] Action: Old_Fogie guide to shells (1) gives color and when you exit mc you land in directory you were last in in 'mc' (2) doesnt give you color, and you exit 'mc' in directory you launched mc from.
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[12:09] <ananke> speaking of mc, did you see that development of it has picked up again? that's great
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[12:09] <Old_Fogie> ananke, heck ya! I skipped my viagara that day when I heard the news
[12:09] <nightf0x09> with what tool do i create slackware packages?
[12:09] <slackytude> time for pizza
[12:09] <ananke> nightf0x09 : makepkg
[12:10] <ananke> nightf0x09 : you may want to look at some sample slackbuild scripts from a slackware mirror first
[12:10] <alisonken1home> nightf0x09: follow the guides in package making. although linuxpackages.net is frowned upon for premade packages, they do have an interesting tutorial on making packages
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[12:10] <nightf0x09> thanx everybody
[12:10] <euzao> in which package is kmail?
[12:11] <clavius> probably kpim
[12:11] <Dominian> kdenetwork iirc or kdepim
[12:11] <limac> would this work for the upgrade to KDE4? slackpkg install kde4  ?
[12:11] <Dominian> limac: I wouldn't
[12:11] <clavius> /var/log/packages/kdepim-3.5.10-i486-4:usr/bin/kmail
[12:11] <Dominian> limac: kde4 is testing.. slackpkg will not remove kde3* nor qt* qca-* files automatically
[12:11] <Zordrak> euzao: you have GOT to stop asking these questions and RTFM or google
[12:12] <ananke> euzao : it may be named kdepim
[12:12] <nightf0x09> is there any  way to find installed packages with make/make install?
[12:12] <ag3ntugly> /var/log/packages/kdepim-3.5.10-i486-4:usr/bin/kmail
[12:12] <Dominian> nightf0x09: no
[12:12] <limac> Dominian: so from source?
[12:12] <Dominian> limac: no
[12:12] <Zordrak> the PACKAGES.TXT alone would answer most of the questions you've asked
[12:12] <Dominian> limac: the point is slackpkg doesn't do depedency nor version tracking
[12:12] <euzao> Zordrak, I searchedand I didn't find
[12:12] <Dominian> limac: you install KDE4 you're going to install it beside kde3 whichi s bad
[12:13] <limac> ah ok.
[12:13] <alisonken1home> nightf0x09: make is for creating binaries - it doesn't know about disto-specific package setups
[12:13] <agentc0re> limac: http://slackware.cs.utah.edu/pub/slackware/slackware-current/testing/packages/kde4/README
[12:13] <_chess_> windowmaker has also picked up development again! :-)
[12:13] <slackytude> slackpkg search file
[12:13] <Dominian> using slackpkg at all to install kde4 is fail in my book
[12:13] <Dominian> that is.. if you have kde3 stuff installed
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[12:14] <limac> yeah.
[12:14] <Urchlay> _chess_: whoa, nice! Maybe they'll fix the nagging 64-bit issues...
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[12:15] <limac> agentc0re: thanks, :)
[12:16] <limac> Lol, a lotta backin up apparantly ;)
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[12:20] <Necos> >.>
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[12:26] <bhodgins> Hey
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[12:30] <alisonken1home> ho
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[12:32] <bhodgins> So I have to do an isearch for school
[12:33] <bhodgins> gonna do it on making a unix kernel and booting it. Needed something new.
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[12:37] <v3gard> does anyone know of a good lightscribe-app for linux?
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[12:38] <slava_dp> v3gard, http://www.google.com.ua/search?q=lacie+linux+lightscribe
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[12:40] Action: slava_dp loves kde 4.2
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[12:41] Action: bhodgins hates de's
[12:41] <agentc0re> http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09%2F01%2F28%2F1627240&from=rss
[12:41] <bhodgins> :D
[12:42] <bhodgins> I'm paranoid about my wm's, IF I use X that is.
[12:43] <zaltekk> what does the riaa expect them to do? filter traffic that may be mp3s?
[12:43] <ccfreak2k> That kind of sucks. I'm on AT&T
[12:43] <v3gard> slava_dp: thanks :)
[12:43] <ccfreak2k> zaltekk, probably hop on the anti-P2P train, which AT&T is probably more than happy to do.
[12:44] <zaltekk> ccfreak2k: but how would they hop on the train?  would they attempt to block access to filesharing services on their isp?
[12:44] <holdmypocket> monitor bandwith more strictly
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[12:44] <ccfreak2k> THAT is a good question. There's all kinds of wacky things ISPs do.
[12:45] <zaltekk> this is one of the few situations in which i am glad i have a small isp.
[12:45] <ccfreak2k> Throttling is the most popular. Have 50+ open connections with throughput saturated? Throttle!
[12:45] <zaltekk> it just sucks to not be able to get more than 1.5MBit/s of downstream bandwidth.
[12:45] <ccfreak2k> Actually, the most popular is "fair use".
[12:45] <ccfreak2k> Whereby they limit the amount of data you can download in a unit of time, usually per month
[12:46] <zaltekk> bandwidth caps is the easiest way to piss off your customers
[12:46] <zaltekk> didn't comcast do that last year?
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[12:46] <ccfreak2k> A lot of them do.
[12:47] <zaltekk> i did have charter communications before i moved into this apartment for college and got locked into a smaller isp
[12:47] <zaltekk> and i never had a limit on bandwidth
[12:47] <thrice`> comcasts is 250GB, though
[12:47] <Dominian> supposedly unlimited
[12:48] <ccfreak2k> I'm connected through a local (town) ISP, which even has their own /24 block, but it goes through AT&T's pipe.
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[12:49] <zaltekk> ccfreak2k:  i am unaware if that is my situation.
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[12:49] <ccfreak2k> Find out who your ISP is (shouldn't be hard), WHOIS on your own IP address, etc.
[12:50] <zaltekk> it is Northland Cable
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[12:51] <zaltekk> looks like they have 64.234.0.0 to 64.234.111.255
[12:51] <zaltekk> but i think they have another section too
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[12:52] <bhodgins> Hate google for blocking my sendmail
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[12:53] <bhodgins> I need an external smtp server now, and thatl slow it down!
[12:53] <agentc0re> why would they block your sendmail?
[12:53] <nooper> rr provides its own smtp servers, right?
[12:53] <bhodgins> residential ip.
[12:53] <bhodgins> yeah, I dont have access to them.
[12:54] <Dominian> eh
[12:54] <agentc0re> bhodgins: ah, well you just need to see if you can get a static on that you get get a ptr record for.
[12:54] <bhodgins> it is static
[12:54] <agentc0re> then get a ptr record.
[12:54] <Dominian> relay through the ISP mail servers
[12:54] <agentc0re> probably blocking you cuz you don't have a reverse dns entry.
[12:54] <Dominian> if you have an account with them.. you should have an email account.
[12:55] <Dominian> and I'm pretty sure that RR does smtp-auth
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[12:55] <bhodgins> well its not static but It keeps my ip address and it only changes one every so many months.
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[12:55] <Dominian> bhodgins: then that's dynamic.. not static
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[12:55] <bhodgins> Yes, I know
[12:55] <agentc0re> bhodgins: ... then it's not static.
[12:55] <Dominian> and more than likely RR is blocking outbound port 25 to anything but their own servers
[12:55] <bhodgins> I now.
[12:55] <bhodgins> know*
[12:56] <agentc0re> brb, kde4 just finished installing.  lets try it out! :)
[12:56] <dTd> http://amarok.kde.org/forum/index.php/topic,12523.msg25850.html#msg25850
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[12:56] <bhodgins> when we dont pay the bills rr shuts down our service and gives us a new one, but if I leave it, it never changes.
[12:57] <bhodgins> verizon changed it like every week, pissed me off.
[12:57] <rob0> RR blocking port 25 out would be a fairly new thing, but I know they were talking about it years ago.
[12:59] <bhodgins> idiots. the internet is there to be used, not managed
[12:59] <bhodgins> isp idiots* i mean
[12:59] <bhodgins> if rr blocks port 25 I wont be able to use mailx the way I do.
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[13:01] <rob0> Blame spammers and Microsoft, not ISPs.
[13:02] <rob0> Also, Slackware's mailx is a very capable MUA, it can speak SMTP and even TLS.
[13:02] <bhodgins> I am going to eskimo dsl tho
[13:03] <rob0> Most ISPs now are blocking port 25 out for consumer-grade dynamic IP space.
[13:03] <bhodgins> ...
[13:03] <rob0> Of course they pretty much all allow access to their own SMTP relays.
[13:03] <bhodgins> the internet shall not be governed like this- its just covering up holes, and thats bad.
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[13:04] <nooper> no whining on the internets please
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[13:04] <bhodgins> especialy since not just cvs server has the load issue
[13:04] <rob0> You apparently haven't seen what spam is doing from a mail administrator's perspective. I used to agree with you, before I hosted a heavily-spammed domain.
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[13:04] <bhodgins> supposevely, you can do it with almost anything.
[13:05] <Urchlay> wouldn't be so bad for 'em to block outbound port 25, except that they refuse to relay mail whose sender address isn't in their domain
[13:06] <rob0> Urchlay, indeed, that sucks. Very lame.
[13:06] <Urchlay> so I can't register somedomain.com and use my ISP's smtp server to send mail from me@somedomain.com (even though they know I'm a valid subscriber, I'm coming from one of their IPs, and they can even make me use smtp auth so I'm accountable for what I send...)
[13:06] <Urchlay> eh, sorry, rant. Been annoyed about that forever.
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[13:06] <bhodgins> eskimo dsl is great
[13:06] <bhodgins> they even give you ssh access
[13:07] <rob0> AUTH isn't even necessary. They know you by your IP address. They can pull the plug on you if you're spamming.
[13:07] <bhodgins> :)
[13:07] <Urchlay> rob0: exactly. They know who I am and where I live... so yeah, no auth necessary
[13:07] <rob0> But then that would require an active and clueful abuse desk, and that would cut into profits ...
[13:08] <Urchlay> that's what comes of typing a 4-line-long rant into a non-scrolling 1-line edit window, the end doesn't agree with the start always...
[13:09] <bhodgins> nah
[13:09] <bhodgins> just make a perl script to do it
[13:09] <bhodgins> or something
[13:09] <bhodgins> a simple cron job on the logs.
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[13:13] <agentc0re> Interesting...
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[13:14] <bhodgins> oh well. Lets all DoS rr.com! XD
[13:14] <bhodgins> only kidding.
[13:14] <morgoth_bauglir> testing 123
[13:14] <morgoth_bauglir> k
[13:14] <bhodgins> test
[13:15] <morgoth_bauglir> can irssi be made to connect to multiple networks?
[13:16] <Dominian> yep
[13:16] <straterra> morgoth_bauglir: google.com
[13:16] <morgoth_bauglir> couldnt find anything
[13:16] <straterra> er..what?!
[13:16] <Dominian>  /help server
[13:16] <Dominian> usually you do something like: /server +<address of server>
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[13:16] <morgoth_bauglir> ah, ty
[13:16] <straterra> http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=irssi+multiserver&btnG=Google+Search
[13:16] <straterra> FIRST LINK
[13:16] <BP{k}> http://irssi.org/documentation/startup
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[13:17] <morgoth_bauglir> thank you
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[13:18] <bhodgins> irssi is nice
[13:18] <bhodgins> oh just to let you know
[13:18] <straterra> http://tinyurl.com/bqrksk
[13:18] <morgoth_bauglir> straterra: i was using the wrong keywords
[13:18] <bhodgins> using /server +ircserver wont show the motd and stuff I dont believe
[13:18] <bhodgins> doesnt for me at least
[13:19] <morgoth_bauglir> ah, kk
[13:19] <bhodgins> I'm not sure why, it just seems to remain a blank window till I use /join
[13:19] <zaltekk> eek
[13:19] <zaltekk> iptables doesn't look like fun compared to pf
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[13:20] <bhodgins> iptables isnt too hard, but f you dont know it, it takes some reading
[13:20] <zaltekk> yeah, i'm reading a few articles now
[13:20] <straterra> I like shorewall
[13:20] <bhodgins> man iptables helped me
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[13:21] <bhodgins> anyone ever used smoothwall?
[13:21] <zaltekk> looks like i'll have more than 3 lines to setup my firewall now
[13:22] <bhodgins> iptables is quite nice but be careful
[13:22] <bhodgins> a wrong move may block you out of internet for a day
[13:22] <bhodgins> hah
[13:22] <zaltekk> i've got physical access
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[13:22] <bhodgins> happened to me once, and it took me forever to get it back working
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[13:22] <zaltekk> can't you just flush the table?
[13:23] <bhodgins> I didnt know how, and when I did I wasnt doing it right
[13:23] <zaltekk> ah
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[13:23] <bhodgins> I didnt spend a whole lot of time on it though
[13:23] <zaltekk> forgive my ignorance...iptables is the only way to firewall linux, right?
[13:23] <bhodgins> I'm exzaggerating cause I have up for a day
[13:23] <bhodgins> um, no..
[13:23] <bhodgins> isnt iptables kernel level?
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[13:24] <zaltekk> well...in the end doesn't the kernel only block with iptables?
[13:25] <straterra> iptables is userland and kernel
[13:25] <zaltekk> my limited understanding is that iptables is a userland program to control the kernel's firewalling abilities
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[13:28] <rob0> iptables(8) is userland, netfilter is kernel space, but they're the same project
[13:28] <zaltekk> ah, netfilter was the name i was looking for
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[13:29] <rob0> Projects such as shorewall are just frontends for iptables, or sometimes just a shell script.
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[13:29] <zaltekk> rob0:  so may two options are to either use iptables, or find something to configure it for me?
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[13:30] <Aldaron> What do I need to install to play DVDs on slackware 12.2?
[13:30] <rob0> I think there are a few other options ... 3. use something else; 4. just don't worry ... :)
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[13:31] <Necos> vlc Aldaron
[13:31] Action: slava_dp used to use quicktables script but it's unmaintained now afaik
[13:31] <Aldaron> no slackbuild for vlc!?
[13:32] <straterra> sbo?
[13:32] <slava_dp> Aldaron, libdvdcss, libdvdnav, libdvdplay, all of them on slackbuilds.org
[13:32] <Aldaron> slava_dp: thanks :) (searching for dvd there gave too many answers
[13:32] <slava_dp> Aldaron, and then use xine, gxine, kaffeine, dragon player or whatever else is bundled with slack everything works.
[13:32] <thrice`> vlc is a little complicated with deps :)
[13:33] <straterra> so is mplayer/ffmpeg
[13:33] <thrice`> alienBOB has an everything-included package for vlc
[13:33] <straterra> heh
[13:33] <zaltekk> rob0:  what else is there?
[13:34] <rob0> zaltekk, if you're behind a NAT router, you probably don't need any more firewalling, unless there are potentially hostile users on your LAN.
[13:34] <straterra> Is RMS on your LAN?
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[13:35] <zaltekk> rob0: there aren't.  however, i am stuck using a router/modem combo box that my ISP provides.  and its ability to allow sshd and named to receive connections is buggy
[13:36] <zaltekk> it will randomly stop passing packets to the server and the only fix is to powercycle router/modem combobox
[13:36] <rob0> can you turn off the router functionality and just use it as a modem?
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[13:36] <zaltekk> rob0:  i don't think so...although i could double check
[13:36] <Dominian> zaltekk: what type of modem?
[13:36] <ccfreak2k> Showing rows 0 - 2 (~3^1 total, Query took 0.0004 sec)
[13:36] <ccfreak2k> phpMyAdmin is lovely.
[13:37] <rob0> If you can't, you're stuck with the same problem.
[13:37] <zaltekk> the fix i used with a freebsd server was to setup a DMZ and firewall the server
[13:37] <Dominian> ccfreak2k: phpmyadmin is a security nightmare :P
[13:37] <zaltekk> Dominian: it is SMC networks...let me try to find a model number
[13:37] <ccfreak2k> I also get this "interesting" way of representing the result count.
[13:37] <Dominian> zaltekk: Most of those will bridge if you can get into the administrative interface on them.
[13:37] <Dominian> I've never been too fond of SMC devices.
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[13:38] <zaltekk> Dominian: i can get into the administration login
[13:39] <agentc0re> ah, bummer..  kde4 wont span my wallpaper across both my monitors :(
[13:39] <rob0> I think my Speedstream calls it "bridge mode", although it's not a true bridge.
[13:39] <Dominian> zaltekk: Find th emodel.. search the web.. find th edocumentation.. it should tell you in there how to do it
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[13:40] <Necos> hmmm, can you even run delphi programs in linux? >.>
[13:41] <straterra> Necos: yes
[13:41] <Necos> trying to compile bricx command center
[13:41] <slava_dp> what do i need to activate opengl compositing in kwin? it says check my x config file. well i did :-) (can use xrender no problem but most effects are not available)
[13:41] <zaltekk> Dominian: so that will make it send unrouted traffic to another device?
[13:41] <Necos> unless someone else has a better way to program lego robots under linux
[13:43] <jkwood> Delphi... Yarr...
[13:43] <zaltekk> it is a SMC8014WG
[13:43] <jkwood> Necos: Python?
[13:43] <jkwood> Is that ported yet?
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[13:44] <Necos> eh?
[13:44] <Necos> delphi or python?
[13:44] <jkwood> Python.  For the RCX.
[13:44] <Necos> not that i know of... and that would require me using python, which is not my cup of tea =p
[13:44] <jkwood> I know somebody ported Java and C a while back... by which I mean 4 to years.
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[13:45] <jkwood> s/4 to/4 to 6/
[13:46] <Necos> ewwww
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[13:46] <Dominian> zaltekk: yes
[13:47] Nick change: wahcordian -> wahcordian|Worky
[13:48] <zaltekk> i don't see an option related to bridging
[13:49] <Dominian> zaltekk: some modems don't support it
[13:49] <Dominian> what's the model number on that SMC?
[13:49] <bhodgins> I need to research how to compile something in C that assembly can run.
[13:49] <zaltekk> it is a SMC8014WG
[13:49] <bhodgins> preferably a.out, might be easier.
[13:49] <Gargantua> you could try swimming across
[13:49] <Gargantua> bhodgins, you can do inline asm in C.
[13:49] <Dominian> SMC8014W-G?
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[13:50] <bhodgins> gargantua: I know, but would I be able to boot the program off of a boot loader that way?
[13:50] <Gargantua> I'm not sure actually
[13:50] <Gargantua> interesting question
[13:51] <zaltekk> Dominian: i guess so.  that is what it calls itself in the menus
[13:51] <Dominian> k
[13:51] <bhodgins> I'm doing research for school on building kernels.
[13:52] <Gargantua> ask ##c
[13:54] <ccfreak2k> <plus_M> /dev/ad4s1d    1.9G    1.8G    -97M   105%    /var
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[13:54] <bhodgins> plus_M: BSD?
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[13:55] <Dominian> zaltekk: If I'm looking at the right manual.. that device doesn't support bridging
[13:55] <zaltekk> Dominian: it doesn't seem that it will let me.  i guess i'll just read a bit about iptables.  all i need to do is block all incoming connections other than few ports(ssh, domain, and maybe another couple)
[13:55] <Dominian> zaltekk: that's easy to do ...
[13:55] <Dominian> in fact that SMC probaslby already does that and you just need to configure port forwarding in the modem
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[13:56] <zaltekk> Dominian: the setup is strange.  i can enable the forwarding in the firewall config section, or outside of that in the NAT section, or both.
[13:56] <Dominian> eh
[13:56] <Dominian> that is weird
[13:56] <zaltekk> and i can't get consistent results
[13:57] <bhodgins> ive overfilled /var before..
[13:57] <bhodgins> on slack
[13:57] <bhodgins> woke up one mornin and there was a loop of crap on my screen
[13:58] <zaltekk> NAT->Port Forwarding and Firewall->Access Control
[13:58] <bhodgins> good thing I was using lvm:)
[13:58] <Dominian> zaltekk: nat port forarding is what ou want
[13:58] <zaltekk> it only works if i enable both
[13:58] <Dominian> the firewall acces control is probably for outside connections coming into the modem's firweall
[13:58] <Dominian> oh it does?
[13:58] <Dominian> that makes sense then
[13:58] <zaltekk> yet it eventually stops working after a day or two of traffic goes through
[13:58] <Dominian> its doing an ACL first then passes it to the NAT portion.. that's normal
[13:59] <Dominian> zaltekk: question.. when they stop working.. did your IP on the WAN side change?
[13:59] <zaltekk> nope.  it is static
[13:59] <Dominian> damn
[13:59] <Dominian> well there goes that theory
[13:59] <zaltekk> well..it is configured by dhcp...but it has never changed in the course of a year
[14:00] <zaltekk> i think it is bound to the modem's mac address
[14:01] <zaltekk> tbh i think there is problem in the firmware because at the same time that the forwarding stops working, a lot of packetloss starts occuring
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[14:01] <zaltekk> on the internal network
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[14:02] <rk4n3> bhodgins:  when you compile your C code, it generates assembly - you treat the assembly as just another assembly module - look at its entry point specifics and just call it from your assembly - build the stack frame according to the function definition and then jump to the address you load the module into
[14:02] <nightf0x09> is there any daemon or tool that tunnels all my internet activiy thru socks5 / proxy / ssh tunnel or something like that ( similiar to proxifier for window) ?
[14:03] <bhodgins> hmm, interesting rk4n3
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[14:04] <zaltekk> nightf0x09: didn't you ask that yesterday and get told to use openvpn?
[14:04] <nightf0x09> nopez
[14:05] <bhodgins> so basicly, if I make a small loader in assembly, I could technicly make it load my hello world app I compiled in C that way-
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[14:11] <bhodgins> I should try this on bochs probably before doing it on a rea working system
[14:11] <bhodgins> real*
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[14:15] <bhodgins> its been a while since I touched assembly, and I know I'll never accomplish anything out of thise besides fun and learning how it works a bit, but hey
[14:15] <rk4n3> bhodgins:  not precisely - you wouldn't want to compile and link a full application, you'd want to write a function and just compile it to assembly, then just invoke the funtion from your assembly
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[14:17] <bhodgins> hmm
[14:17] <rk4n3> bhodgins:  and you'd be limited to what functions you could call in your function as well - anything requiring linkage to other libraries would require eventual linking of your code, as well
[14:17] <bhodgins> oh yes, thats true too
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[14:18] <rk4n3> bhodgins:  so, it becomes important to plan out placement of your code and such
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[14:19] <bhodgins> so basicly, if I were to compile a c program with the function "test" (void) {} Icould technicly call that from my assembly program?
[14:19] <bhodgins> I think I see this is how main() in C works?
[14:19] <rk4n3> sure, except it would be exactly a "C program", it would be a "C function"
[14:19] <rk4n3> s/would/wouldn't
[14:20] <bhodgins> thats very interesting.
[14:20] <rk4n3> yeah, main() is basically a snippet of assembly that gets invoked automatically by the process-launching mechanism
[14:20] <rk4n3> the process of linking places the code for main() at the right spot to be thus invoked
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[14:22] <v3gard> this might be the wrong place to ask, but which (open source) programs are usable when it comes to revision control with scientific project reports? is trac usable?
[14:22] <rk4n3> cvs, svn, and git
[14:22] <jkwood> I personally prefer git.  It tends to be a lot more flexible than either cvs or svn.
[14:22] <rk4n3> ... all will do revision control on any types of files
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[14:23] <rk4n3> I too prefer git
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[14:23] <bhodgins> rvs? or w/e its called ;)
[14:23] <jkwood> Git handles binary files better, IME.
[14:23] <v3gard> i actually use svn for my programming-projects, but I don't see how that would be usable with scientific reports.. it has to support milestones and such
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[14:23] <rk4n3> bhodgins:  rcs ?
[14:23] <rk4n3> :)
[14:23] <bhodgins> yeah
[14:23] <bhodgins> couldnt remember
[14:23] <bhodgins> was in my lpi book
[14:23] <bhodgins> or wait, not lpi, linux handbook
[14:24] <v3gard> so git would be the preferred application? not trac?
[14:24] <v3gard> or rcs?
[14:24] <rk4n3> v3gard:  I'm not sure what you mean - what doesn't svn support that would be needed for scientific reports ?
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[14:25] <v3gard> I haven't used svn that much really, but does svn have support for web-interfaces and provide information about dead-lines and milestones?
[14:26] <jkwood> You can handle milestones with it, I'm not sure about deadlines.
[14:26] <jkwood> Git has a mechanism for milestones as well, though I have yet to use it.
[14:27] <rk4n3> v3gard:  svn does have a couple types of web interface support, and supports both snapshot tags and branches, which can be used to mark milestones - I'm not sure how deadlines are relevant, that's a planning-type feature, right ?
[14:27] <v3gard> rk4n3: yup
[14:27] <jkwood> Git comes with gitweb, afaik.
[14:27] <rk4n3> v3gard: that's not a typical feature of revision control
[14:27] <rk4n3> v3gard:  its more project management
[14:28] <v3gard> aah, okey
[14:28] <rk4n3> svn and git basically support the same things, but I think git does most things better
[14:28] <jkwood> Plus, it's meant to be used in a distributed way.
[14:28] <jkwood> svn has a central repo, and all changes have to be pushed there.
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[14:29] <jkwood> With git, you can line up a thousand commits if you like before pushing to a central repo.
[14:29] <rk4n3> yep, that's probably the biggest difference
[14:29] <jkwood> Or, you can just let somebody else pull from you.
[14:29] <rk4n3> yep, it very flexible, and surprisingly powerful, in that way
[14:31] <rk4n3> ... you can also set a git repository up in such as way as to support a model similar to svn, where the "shared" central repository is pushed to from remotes, but even set up like that its still more flexible because you can still use the other techniques as well
[14:32] <v3gard> have you guys tried out taskjuggler? that sounds pretty much like what I'm looking for
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[14:33] <rk4n3> about the only thing I can think of that svn has and git doesn't is its own access permission mechanism(s), so access to the repository can differ from access to the environment/filesystem
[14:33] <v3gard> or do you think git would be more appropriate?
[14:33] Action: rk4n3 takes a look at taskjuggler
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[14:36] <rk4n3> taskjuggler is a different type of product - its project management.  A comparable opensource app would be something like jxProject
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[14:37] <v3gard> so basically I would be better off with git when it comes to working together in teams on a single document?
[14:37] <rk4n3> ... ganttproject is another
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[14:37] <MagnaZXone> v3gard: planner
[14:38] <rk4n3> v3gard:  whoa ... wait, now it sounds like you want document management with built-in version control ... does that sound right ?
[14:39] <rk4n3> v3gard:  something like a wiki might be more what you're looking for, if that's the case ...
[14:39] <rk4n3> v3gard:  ... maybe TWiki, or wikimedia
[14:41] <MagnaZXone> v3gard: Whatever you do, dont even think to try the microsoft one... hmm, it it total crap.
[14:41] <MagnaZXone> shareportal i think its called, so crappy
[14:41] <rk4n3> MagnaZXone:  are you referring to MS Project, or SharePoint ?
[14:41] <rk4n3> ah, SharePoint ... absolute crap
[14:41] <MagnaZXone> Yeah, that sharepoint thing. So frikken baad
[14:42] <rk4n3> indeed
[14:42] <v3gard> MagnaZXone: hehe, there's a reason why I'm sticking to slackware and free software :)
[14:42] <MagnaZXone> Its also based on activex so its not really useful
[14:42] <v3gard> rk4n3: that might be what I'm looking for :)
[14:42] <MagnaZXone> Your path is the correct
[14:42] <MagnaZXone> one
[14:42] <rk4n3> if SharePoint resembles what you're looking for, then its definitely a wiki that you need
[14:43] <rk4n3> ... in fact, I've annoyed all the Microsoft fans here at work by renaming SharePoint to "FailWiki"
[14:44] <v3gard> basically, what I am going to do is spending the next six months writing a scientific document about VPNs with another guy, and I want a program to take care of all the planning for me and that keeps track on who is writing what in the report
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[14:44] <v3gard> as well as keeping me up to date with upcoming milestones and deadlines
[14:44] <MagnaZXone> rk4n3: Well, shit should never be applauded but you know that :=)
[14:44] <euzao> what a weird things
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[14:44] <euzao> Firefox doesn't show any text
[14:44] <euzao> everything is blank
[14:45] <slakmagik> v3gard: trac? Has a wiki and svn and milestones and tickets and whatnot
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[14:45] <slakmagik> just started paying attention - sorry if I'm redundant or off-base
[14:46] <rk4n3> v3gard:  aha - that's even a little different, then ... sounds like you want a project management program to do planning, and then a good way to collaborate on the actual "materials" being worked on ... will the document be a single document edited in a certain app, or will it be a collection of "source" materials that gets assembled into a document ?
[14:46] <v3gard> slakmagik: I've actually given trac much thought, but I don't have any experience with it :)
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[14:46] <slakmagik> ah - well, only one way to change that. :)
[14:46] <v3gard> it will be a single document being written in openoffice
[14:47] <rk4n3> v3gard:  sorry - my head's a little scattered - I just realized that a wiki will probably handle the program management part for you, too - just create your plan in the wiki, and attach the openoffice document to the plan page
[14:47] Action: slava_dp looks at ganttproject and finds it very useful for my needs. thanks for mentioning.
[14:47] <rk4n3> ... the document will be revision-controlled, and your plan can be updated and collaborated on live/at-will
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[14:48] <rk4n3> slava_dp:  sure - it seems to work pretty well, too - not too buggy or anything
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[14:49] <v3gard> would a wiki also provide me with upcoming deadlines and milestones?
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[14:49] <Buggaboo> unless you put it in there...
[14:49] <MagnaZXone> TODAY There seems to be a willingness To destroy Documents. A total mess is what that will be if ever introduced. I pitty the tool :=)
[14:49] <rk4n3> v3gard:  the cool thing about a wiki is you can do almost anything imaginable with it ... you author the pages to contain whatever you want, and can use lists, tables, etc...
[14:50] <MagnaZXone> Document Colaboration - gibberish
[14:50] <rk4n3> MagnaZXone:  not sure what you mean by that ?
[14:51] <v3gard> allright
[14:51] Action: slakmagik finishes scrolling back and realizes it was "redundant" but not "off-base"
[14:51] <v3gard> so, would you recommend TWiki or wikimedia?
[14:51] <Buggaboo> I like wikimedia...
[14:51] <Buggaboo> since I have never used Twiki...
[14:52] <v3gard> allright, all in favor of wikimedia - say "I" :)
[14:52] <rk4n3> v3gard:  wow, that's a good question ... TWiki has some really strong, nice features ... wikimedia is probably a little more "well-socialized"
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[14:52] <Buggaboo> speaking of wikis... I need to install me one right here...
[14:52] <rk4n3> everyone needs a wiki :)
[14:52] <v3gard> I don't need socialization, I just need the right tool for the job :)
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[14:53] <Buggaboo> I was just thinking about how easy it is to create a weaponized auto-wiki-defacer...
[14:53] <rk4n3> v3gard:  for you job, I'd recommend TWiki, because it actually associates attached documents to the page they're attached to - wikimedia relies on a sorta "loose" pool of attached files
[14:53] <MagnaZXone> rk4n3: Check out, lock, check in: good. wildly using untested rehashings as document filenames, searchings within files to try to get the correct file in haystacks, hoping that itll be there the next day. Naah
[14:53] <Buggaboo> with spam and whatnot...
[14:54] <Buggaboo> not even a day's coding...
[14:54] <v3gard> rk4n3: allright, you've convinced me. i'll give TWiki a shot, and tell you how it goes :)
[14:54] <v3gard> thanks for the help everybody
[14:54] <rk4n3> v3gard:  a hint for installation...
[14:54] <v3gard> I really appreciate it :)
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[14:55] <MagnaZXone> Buggaboo: Tell us your thinkings! :)
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[14:55] <rk4n3> v3gard:  TWiki is implemented in perl, and going through the perl module pre-requisites and making sure they're installed (use CPAN) will make things much nicer
[14:55] <Buggaboo> ehm. It's not that profound...
[14:55] <Alan_Hicks> Buggaboo: I though wikis were their own self-destruct weapons.
[14:56] <Alan_Hicks> I mean, just look at wikipedia. Hard to take something serious when 90% of the articles are about 80s Saturday morning cartoon shows.
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[14:56] <v3gard> rk4n3: thanks for the tip.. I've actually used perl and CPAN a bit before when I was looking into SQL Fairy
[14:56] <Buggaboo> MagnaZXone, just automate the login name/password creation, and let loose a spider on it, then POSTs all around...
[14:56] <MagnaZXone> Alan_Hicks: Stop beeing so suburban, its a new millenium ;)
[14:56] <rk4n3> don't tell me pop-culture has left me behind again and has moved on to "wiki-hating" already ?!?
[14:56] <Alan_Hicks> MagnaZXone: Now that's something I have until now, never been accused of.
[14:56] <Buggaboo> MagnaZXone, for instance wikimedia has a nice default way of creating users...
[14:57] <MagnaZXone> Buggaboo: I like wikipedia
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[14:57] <rk4n3> Buggaboo:  TWiki does the same thing
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[14:57] <Buggaboo> okay, it's breakable, but, the fun part is, how to stop this crap, without illegible CAPTCHAs :P
[14:57] <MagnaZXone> Alan_Hicks: So you find yourself in a very axionable position ? :=)
[14:58] Action: rk4n3 can never seem to keep up with pop-culture, and is still listening to Eddie Arnold, George Strait, and Marty Robbins
[14:58] <Gargantua_> axionable... good word
[14:58] <Buggaboo> But then again, I can work out a proof of thingy, in three hours, or I can chill the ***k out... after a 10 hour long workday...
[14:59] <Alan_Hicks> rk4n3: You're a man after my own heart.
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[14:59] <rk4n3> Alan_Hicks: :)
[14:59] <Buggaboo> I pass.
[14:59] <MagnaZXone> lol
[14:59] <Gargantua_> rk4n3, I've never even heard of those people
[14:59] <Alan_Hicks> MagnaZXone: Sorry man, I don't have five dollars to respond to that.
[14:59] <Buggaboo> mind you I have the crawler to do the job ...
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[14:59] <Alan_Hicks> Gargantua_: You've *never* heard of Marty Robbins?
[14:59] <Gargantua_> never
[14:59] <Gargantua_> wait
[14:59] <Gargantua_> is that the guy from Taxi
[15:00] <Alan_Hicks> You are seriously deprived.
[15:00] <Gargantua_> He sort of looks lik ehim
[15:00] <Alan_Hicks> Hell no.
[15:00] Action: rk4n3 headdesks
[15:00] Action: Buggaboo goes to read http://pbfcomics.com instead of being the poseur cool black hat guy
[15:00] <Gargantua_> Alex from Taxi?
[15:00] <alisonken1home> not even close
[15:00] <Gargantua_> http://epguides.com/Taxi/cast.jpg
[15:00] <Alan_Hicks> Gargantua_: http://tinyurl.com/b6v9nk
[15:00] <Gargantua_> http://i20.tinypic.com/znv6nt.jpg
[15:00] <Gargantua_> come on
[15:01] <Gargantua_> they're like twins
[15:01] <alisonken1home> I still think it's a stretch
[15:02] <Gargantua_> COME ON
[15:02] <Alan_Hicks> Gargantua_: Marty Robbins is quite possibly one of the Top 10 greatest all-around entertainers of all time.
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[15:02] <alisonken1home> especially with the c/w crowd
[15:02] <Alan_Hicks> I mean, Elvis presley obviously claims to top spot fo his movies, TV appearences, and music, but Marty Robbins is right up there.
[15:03] <Alan_Hicks> What I'm about to tell you is a 100% true story.
[15:03] <Gargantua_> I've never listed to Elvis
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[15:03] <Gargantua_> listened*
[15:03] <Alan_Hicks> Marty Robbins made so much money singing that he could take up whatever hobby he wanted to.  The hobby he chose?  NASCAR racing.
[15:04] <Alan_Hicks> He bought his own car, built it up, and raced it all himself (then had to race back to Nashville to do the Grand Ole Opry every Saturday night).
[15:04] <MagnaZXone> Oh, i have the perfect compile of a system from the latest sources
[15:04] <Alan_Hicks> He never won, but one day he came out there and just stomped everyone!  He was passing 'em left and right, ran to the front of the pack, then pulled into the pits and quit.
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[15:04] <Alan_Hicks> His reason?  "Oh, I'm running an illegal carbuerator.  I just wanted to see what it was like to pass all those guys once."
[15:04] <Alan_Hicks> I mean, come on!  You gotta love that.
[15:06] <alisonken1home> at least he knew not to try to pass it off as a good run :)
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[15:07] <Alan_Hicks> Exactly.  he wasn't trying to win, just trying to have fun. :-)
[15:07] <Necos> he cheated, but hey he had fun
[15:07] <MagnaZXone> And thats how you can also win!
[15:08] <alisonken1home> winning isn't everything - but having fun is better
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[15:08] <MagnaZXone> There are 2 ways in winning but 3-Ohm lines in a freeway :=)
[15:09] <alisonken1home> only 3 ohms? I thought it was higher
[15:09] <MagnaZXone> Then again, maybe more lines is less because speed sure kills
[15:10] <alisonken1home> well, unsafe speed kills
[15:10] <MagnaZXone> 3-Ohmega
[15:10] <Alan_Hicks> unsafe *changes* in speed kill
[15:11] <MagnaZXone> too steep will do that i think. But over time people adjust
[15:11] <MagnaZXone> Its a worldly workings of things
[15:13] <MagnaZXone> Crash --- But i always used to take that road and knew it on the back of my hand(s)
[15:13] <MagnaZXone> GrayZone - Minimize risk by incrementing speed over danger areas :=)
[15:14] <MagnaZXone> Naah - Increasing is a better word
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[15:16] <MagnaZXone> This asserts that running over a railway crossing at 300 Kilometers an hour is less risky then doing it at 30 Kilometers an hour if theres a possibility a train might pass any day soon :P
[15:17] <Cann0n> ...
[15:17] <MagnaZXone> Its not recommended doing so if a train approaches and theres a chanse you might actually hit it though :=)
[15:17] <rk4n3> just opinion:  everyone always gave credit to Elvis for having the "golden voice", but I always thought Marty Robbins had the more spell-binding tone in his voice
[15:17] <MagnaZXone> what did he sing ?
[15:18] <nullboy> where i live, someone somehow manages to get hit by the train at least once a month
[15:18] <Alan_Hicks> MagnaZXone: No, you see, being hit by the train is a sudden and unsafe change in speed.
[15:18] <Alan_Hicks> Force = Mass * Acceleration
[15:18] <MagnaZXone> Cann0n: Dont like hp ?
[15:18] <Cann0n> HP the computer company?
[15:18] <Alan_Hicks> Therefor any force that results in a noticeable change is by definition a change in speed.
[15:18] <MagnaZXone> Alan_Hicks: We arent hit are we :P
[15:18] <Necos> lol
[15:19] <Alan_Hicks> rk4n3: Yes, but Elvis was unarguably the bigger personality.
[15:19] <Cann0n> im lost. we went from speed kills to do i like hp...
[15:19] <Cann0n> anyways, i gtg. later
[15:19] <MagnaZXone> lr
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[15:20] <MagnaZXone> Elvis was very cool. Hehe, we could clone Elvis! :=)
[15:21] <Alan_Hicks> MagnaZXone: We did, then we sent him back to his home planet.
[15:21] <MagnaZXone> Was IT A-Mazon ?
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[15:25] <MagnaZXone> In a month or 3 ill need someone to test my from scratch installer. I must get a big pipe so more can test it but now i dont have much fibers
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[15:28] <DoktoRN> Hello slackers, anyone that's good with wireless/slackware? please msg me
[15:29] <MagnaZXone> DoktoRN: Its mostly typed here to benefit all. Its a good solution
[15:29] <DoktoRN> valid point
[15:29] <DoktoRN> MagnaZXone: are you used with wireless with slackware?
[15:30] <MagnaZXone> Plus, noone will probably succeed in trolling you
[15:31] <MagnaZXone> no, i mostly avoid those things because they are non working at times. I buy alot of 3g and suff though in any form there is.
[15:31] <MagnaZXone> suff/stuff
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[15:32] <Alan_Hicks> DoktoRN: No.
[15:32] <DoktoRN> darn it
[15:32] Action: Shingoshi upgrades to KDE-4.2.0!
[15:32] <Alan_Hicks> Ask your question here, not in PMs, and certainly not by soliciting people to PM you to ask you to ask your question.  That's just plain stupid.
[15:33] <MagnaZXone> DoktoRN: Bought a few of these and they rock... http://www.misco.se/product/product.aspx?P_ItemId=562871&SearchString=powerline
[15:33] <abo> hello, what shouwld i put in ARCH in slackpkg if i have i586 ?
[15:33] <Alan_Hicks> abo: That depends on how you compiled it.
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[15:34] <Buggaboo> DoktoRN, you don't demand anything from a channel, you ask politely with "pretty please and cherries on the top".
[15:34] <MagnaZXone> DoktoRN: No more having cablemonkeys casting roof wires :=)
[15:34] <Alan_Hicks> abo: If you followed the template at slackbuilds.org, you'd use i486.
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[15:35] <DoktoRN> :)
[15:36] <MagnaZXone> DoktoRN: Those things do not reach outside the fusebox it seems in most places so if they cant its totally secure. Filterbox
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[15:37] <MagnaZXone> Alan_Hicks: 586x is what is working best across the spectrum today
[15:37] <abo> Alan_Hicks, i mean my cpu is i586 and there is a line in slackpkg.conf ARCH=[i]*[3456x]
[15:37] <MagnaZXone> spectrum == computer landscape
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[15:38] <Alan_Hicks> Sorry, I can't help a bit with slackpkg crap.
[15:38] <abo> Alan_Hicks,  should i remove the 6
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[15:39] <Alan_Hicks> abo: How should I know?  I don't use slackpkg.
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[15:40] <alienBOB> abo - you should not change ARCH in slackpkg.conf at all
[15:40] <MagnaZXone> Hmm, i really want to work with coding for OSS. I code alot now but could use a little bit of money as well (not as much as i earn now maybe) but its something i want to do really bad. What options do i have ?
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[15:40] <alienBOB> Unless you have a fully recompiled Slackware for another arch than ARCH=i486
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[15:42] <abo> alienBOB, ok will leave it as it is
[15:43] <abo> slackpkg a bad idea in general ?
[15:43] <alienBOB> No, a good idea in general
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[15:44] <alienBOB> BUt - it only works with the official Slackware package tree
[15:44] <alienBOB> It is very good at keeping your installation up to date, or do a painless upgrade to a new release
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[15:44] <MagnaZXone> An ideea is growing --- what if i told the boss i would like to do that and if so i could refrain from a raise and use instead code when im not switching routers and stuff ?
[15:45] <MagnaZXone> Makes me happy to code alot, yeah... i like it
[15:45] <alienBOB> Most job conditions imply that everything you write in the boss's time is copyright "the boss" - be careful
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[15:46] <MagnaZXone> alienBOB: yeah, we would write something up then. I only get to code OSS at weekends and even then the gf takes up most of the time. I will have to fix this somehow...
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[15:47] <alienBOB> MagnaZXone: you let your ideas brew during work hours, take notes, write skeleton code, and then at night at home you can crank out a lot more code than if you had to start thinking after work
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[15:48] <MagnaZXone> Thats what i do, but theres not enough time
[15:48] <Alan_Hicks> MagnaZXone: That's easy.
[15:48] <dTd> yeah, why ever think about work stuff ;)
[15:48] <Alan_Hicks> MagnaZXone: Just treat her bad and then introduce her to me.  All your gf problems are solved.
[15:48] <alienBOB> My manager let me use 10% of my time as I see fit - very nice of him - because he knows I will get the job done anyway
[15:49] <MagnaZXone> Alan_Hicks: Probably :P
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[15:49] <alienBOB> MagnaZXone: if your gf likes lemons then you are in trouble now that Alan_Hicks jumped in
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[15:49] <MagnaZXone> Alan_Hicks: So many cities in the world and you cant find a gf ?
[15:50] <Alan_Hicks> MagnaZXone: I don't go to cities much. :-)
[15:50] <alienBOB> MagnaZXone: in his part of the world the nearest girl will say OINK
[15:50] <Alan_Hicks> Sexy. ;-)
[15:50] <MagnaZXone> alienBOB: well, your last name seems to be BOB... :=)
[15:50] <alienBOB> Wag it
[15:50] <Necos> hahahaha
[15:50] <Alan_Hicks> Look at that curly tail!
[15:51] <alienBOB> Those firm hairs!
[15:51] <Alan_Hicks> Something to grap onto. ;-)
[15:51] <alienBOB> Lovely pink skin!
[15:51] <alienBOB> Tastes better too
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[15:51] <Alan_Hicks> Damn... where's straterra when you need him?
[15:51] <Alan_Hicks> HAHAHA
[15:51] <Alan_Hicks> Pork does taste good...
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[15:52] <alienBOB> It's better to pork than tu suckseed I always say - straterra will not agree
[15:52] <alienBOB> You know - I should cut down on early evening alcohol
[15:52] <Alan_Hicks> hahaha
[15:53] <Alan_Hicks> No, you need to drink it more.  You're hilarious tonight.
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[15:53] <Necos> ...
[15:53] <alienBOB> Well KDE4.2 out the door - what is left for the old man? Booze
[15:53] Nick change: Guest12935 -> reallove
[15:53] <Alan_Hicks> And a well deserved booze at that.
[15:54] <alienBOB> Wanted to test the new netconfig but I am arsed to walk two stairs to the test rig
[15:54] <sombriks> new netconfig?
[15:54] <alienBOB> Pretend you did not read that
[15:54] <sombriks> ok, ;)
[15:55] <Alan_Hicks> tsk tsk tsk
[15:55] <Alan_Hicks> Maybe you should cut down on early evening booze.
[15:56] <Necos> hahahaha
[15:56] <Necos> the alien had too much sauce
[15:56] <Alan_Hicks> Now he knows how I felt in Brazil.
[15:56] <alienBOB> Well new netconfig, mkinitrd, liloconfig - all to make Slackware installation a better experience. But still under wraps
[15:56] <dive> mmm pork and sauce
[15:57] <Alan_Hicks> alienBOB: Your tongue's wagging.  Might want to see about that.
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[15:58] <dive> evenin all
[15:58] <Alan_Hicks> Evenin'.
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[16:03] <nullboy> windows XP fresh installs...all day
[16:04] <v3gard> alienBOB: how can the slackware installation be a better experience? installing slackware is the ultimate experiance :)
[16:04] <v3gard> *ence
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[16:05] <dive> v3gard, add a few cans of beer
[16:05] <alienBOB> v3gard: automatic initrd creation using the generic kernel for instance
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[16:06] <thrice`> I'd like to see more vga options during liloconfig :>  or perhaps a custom, 3-digit entry option
[16:07] <alienBOB> Yeah some also want to be able to switch to runlevel 4 :-) All of that will _not_ go in
[16:07] <Alan_Hicks> Definitely not.
[16:07] <rob0> I want a pony.
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[16:08] <Alan_Hicks> rob0: I'll get you a pony.
[16:08] <thrice`> well, I use a widescreen setting (872), for example.
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[16:08] <rob0> thrice`: !! I didn't know there was widescreen support in framebuffer!
[16:08] <alienBOB> thrice`: what resolution is that
[16:08] <thrice`> 1280x800
[16:08] <Alan_Hicks> I didn't know that either!
[16:08] <Alan_Hicks> Awesome!
[16:08] <rob0> wow
[16:09] Action: Alan_Hicks edits lilo.conf.
[16:09] <thrice`> old farts
[16:09] <Rat409> lol
[16:09] <rob0> I gugled it some months ago, is this new?
[16:09] <rob0> also didn't find it in Documentation/fb
[16:11] <Alan_Hicks> I never found anything about wide-screen frame-buffer in any googles or docs.
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[16:12] <thrice`> dont' tell anyone, it's a secret
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[16:13] <rob0> Hey it was YOU who let this cat out of the bag.
[16:13] <nullboy> hey wtf!
[16:13] <nullboy> i see what you did there with that cat
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[16:13] <thrice`> well, dont' tell anyone else
[16:14] <agentc0re> thrice`: are you using uvesafb?
[16:14] <rob0> There's more than one way to skin a cat. So keep your cats away from perl coders.
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[16:14] <nullboy> hmm what about for 1440x900
[16:15] <rob0> not in /etc/fb.modes
[16:16] <nullboy> well, non-native widescreen is better than no widescreen i guess
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[16:23] Nick change: Gargantua_ -> Gargantua
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[16:24] <rob0> # CONFIG_FB_UVESA is not set
[16:24] <agentc0re> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/i-just-installed-uvesafb-654739/
[16:26] <slava_dp> heh, that's good news about the fb mode. i thought widescreen is unsupported.
[16:26] Action: slava_dp will make use of it
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[16:26] <thrice`> I can't find the post where I got that.  And no, I believe I'm using vesa, as uvesa is not compiled in
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[16:26] <rob0> Now, I wonder if I can have dual monitors in console ...
[16:27] <thrice`> 872 appears to be slightly less than 1280x800
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[16:27] <thrice`> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA_BIOS  shows a few interresting ones under "Other commonly available modes"
[16:27] <dive> 1280x768?
[16:28] <rob0> ... on this Nvidia, I only have the DVI head in console, the VGA one goes blank. On another (older) nvidia it has both, but they're displaying the same thing.
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[16:28] <tntslack> hi all, i have noticed a problem with skype, while i am trying to test my microphone on it, it is freezing, and not working. and when i put my laptop on sleep and after wake it up, then microphone is working correct... any idea about this problem?
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[16:29] <dive> In console I have cloned image to TV, but in X I have two different desktops
[16:29] <dive> with nvidia
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[16:31] <dive> but I think that's likely to be a feature of the card
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[16:31] <rob0> yeah, in X on both of the aforementioned, I have 3360x1050
[16:32] <agentc0re> rob0: thats my resolution as well.
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[16:47] <slackmagic> ~1~0.
[16:47] <agentc0re> who's testing out kde4 and has dual monitors?
[16:48] <clavius> I am
[16:48] <agentc0re> have you been able to span a wallpaper across both screens?
[16:48] <clavius> Trying to get SuperKaramba to work right now
[16:48] <clavius> no
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[16:57] <slava_dp> what's superkaramba for?
[16:57] <Dominian> desktop eye candy
[16:57] <slava_dp> i thought plasma deprecates it
[16:58] <clavius> well, Liquid Weather I mean
[16:58] <slava_dp> oh well, goodnight everyone. have a nice time.
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[17:00] <clavius> that's a super old xchat he's running
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[17:02] <enigma> Can someone help a newbie (me) with a tiny snag of a problem?
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[17:02] <enigma> I've installed a program that errors up with error while loading shared libraries: libsutil.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[17:02] <jerojasro> enigma, don't ask to ask, just ask
[17:03] <enigma> but I've found the file in /usr/local/lib/libsutil.so
[17:03] <enigma> how do I tell the program where to find it?
[17:03] <jerojasro> enigma, does libsutil.so.0 exist?
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[17:03] <enigma> yes
[17:04] <jerojasro> try running ldconfig as root
[17:04] <alienBOB> With the .0 at the end?
[17:04] <enigma> hold on.. checking.. does it have to have the so.0 <-- 0 on the end>
[17:04] <enigma> ah one sec
[17:04] <enigma> yes found it in /usr/local/lib/libsutil.so.0
[17:05] <enigma> and thats the only one according to whereis
[17:05] <jerojasro> ok, then run ldconfig
[17:06] <jerojasro> after that you should be able to run your program
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[17:09] <newbieslacker> i can speak on skype but the mic is working .can somebody helpme ?
[17:09] <newbieslacker> i mean i cant speak
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[17:15] <SlackNeo> newbieslacker: you are luis ??
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[17:25] <newbieslacker> SlackNeo : yes
[17:25] <newbieslacker> you are alive
[17:25] <newbieslacker> hehheh
[17:25] <SlackNeo> jajaja :P
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[17:26] <SlackNeo> i can speak on skype :)
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[17:29] <newbieslacker> i know .but the problem is alsa
[17:30] <newbieslacker> i tried to reconfigure
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[17:30] <newbieslacker> what are you using SlackNeo _
[17:31] <newbieslacker> kde or xfce ?
[17:31] <SlackNeo> xfce
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[17:33] <newbieslacker> mmm.strange
[17:33] <newbieslacker> i dont know what to do
[17:33] <newbieslacker> how to fix it
[17:33] <newbieslacker> i searched on google
[17:34] <newbieslacker> but i cant find a solution
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[17:35] <PaddyMac> Hi folks.
[17:35] <newbieslacker> PaddyMac : hi
[17:36] <PaddyMac> I've been off work today and it has flown by.
[17:36] <PaddyMac> Hi newbieslacker.
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[17:36] <newbieslacker> PaddyMac maybe you can help me
[17:36] <newbieslacker> i got a problem with the sound
[17:36] <PaddyMac> I'll give it a shot.
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[17:37] <newbieslacker> i got my mic working
[17:37] <PaddyMac> LOL. I had one recently too.
[17:37] <newbieslacker> yes.the problem is
[17:37] <PaddyMac> Really!? Then I should be getting help from you.
[17:37] <newbieslacker> i cant speak in skype
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[17:37] <newbieslacker> but when i speak i can hear my voice
[17:37] <newbieslacker> so alsa is working
[17:38] <eviljames> Usually when I speak I can hear my voice
[17:38] <PaddyMac> lol james
[17:38] <eviljames> But I don't take that as proof that alsa works.
[17:38] <newbieslacker> eviljames : hi
[17:38] <eviljames> newbieslacker: I'm not sure about Skype per se, but I think it needs to know where to listen
[17:38] <newbieslacker> oh.. so how can i fix this ?
[17:38] <PaddyMac> So what is the problem? Do you not want to hear your voice?
[17:39] <newbieslacker> no .the people in skype cant hearme
[17:39] <PaddyMac> If that is the case, try muting the microphone.
[17:39] <PaddyMac> Oh!
[17:39] <newbieslacker> really ?
[17:39] <newbieslacker> i have to mute my mic ?
[17:39] <eviljames> newbieslacker: Using KDE?  Check kmix volume settings?
[17:39] <newbieslacker> i did
[17:39] <PaddyMac> Hmm... I've never used Skype, so I don't know about specifics. Does Skype have a built-in microphone check?
[17:40] <newbieslacker> with alsaconfig
[17:40] <newbieslacker> i saved the changes
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[17:40] <eviljames> PaddyMac: That's what I was just talking about, that Skype may have an internal setting of where to listen from
[17:40] <newbieslacker> yes
[17:40] <newbieslacker> you can test your mic making a testcall
[17:40] <PaddyMac> I'll say this, newblieslacker. I've been trying to get my mic working under Linux, and you're apparently doing better than I.
[17:40] <SlackNeo> newbieslacker: login #slackware-es
[17:42] <newbieslacker> with slack 12.1 i dont have this problem
[17:42] <newbieslacker> but when i installed slack 12.2
[17:42] <newbieslacker> i found this problem with the mic
[17:43] <PaddyMac> Maybe someone know's how to help me. Even as root, if I try to change the group for a directory, the change won't stick. It defaults to "root" for both owner and group. From command line, even chown won't change the group.
[17:43] <eviljames> PaddyMac: Is it a special folder of some kind?
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[17:43] <rworkman> PaddyMac: sounds like it's an NTFS or FAT?? filesystem.
[17:44] <eviljames> rworkman: Interesting, I hadn't thought of that.
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[17:45] <rworkman> yeah, and iirc, chown fails silently.
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[17:46] <PaddyMac> I have two directories: /mnt/drive_c and /mnt/drive_d which are two NTFS partitions I have mounted using ntfs-3g. The ntfs-3g setting is 007 so that owner and group can rear/write but no one else can access the partitions. I created a group "localdrive" and added my primary user account to that group. So I want to make the group for those directories "localdrive". I've done it before, but I reinstalled and now it won't let m
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[17:46] <rworkman> PaddyMac: http://slackwiki.org/Windows_Partitions
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[17:47] <PaddyMac> I'll read that. Thanks rworkman. It's just odd that I've done it this way before with absolutely no trouble, and this time I can't change the group. The root account still can access them with no trouble.
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[17:48] <rworkman> You've not done it that way before. You're misremembering.
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[17:48] <tntslack> i have noticed a problem with skype, while i am trying to test my microphone on it, it is freezing, and not working. and when i put my laptop on sleep and after wake it up, then microphone is working correct... any idea about this problem?
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[17:51] <wahcordian|Worky> laters
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[17:53] <andarius> greetings and salutations
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[17:54] <clavius> greetings fellow georgian
[17:54] <PaddyMac> rworkman: I know I did it that way before. Maybe it was a bug that worked in my favor (a true rarity). The only change I made to my /etc/fstab file before was changing umask to 007 instead of 077 and then right-clicking on the folder in Konqueror and changing the group to "localdrive". It worked great.
[17:55] <PaddyMac> I think I might also have set the SID and GID bits, but I don't think that really mattered.
[17:55] <PaddyMac> Anyway, I am trying the guide and rebooting soon to try it.
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[17:56] <PaddyMac> By the way, does anyone know a good recipe for deer?
[17:56] <thrice`> no need to reboot; just remount with the new options
[17:56] <PaddyMac> How do I do that? I must escape the old Windows mentality that I have to reboot for every little change.
[17:57] <thrice`> well, umount /dev/<windows_partition>
[17:57] <thrice`> mount /dev/<windows_partition>   after you have changed /etc/fstab
[17:58] <PaddyMac> Oh yeah, I forgot. The moun and umount commands automatically check /etc/fstab, right?
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[17:58] <Khratos> ~ sweet ~
[17:59] <andarius> i do my best :o
[17:59] <PaddyMac> It seems to have worked.
[18:01] <PaddyMac> exit
[18:02] <PaddyMac> opps. wrong windopw
[18:02] <andarius> denied
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[18:02] <Khratos> xD
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[18:10] <nick01> is there a qmysql slackware 12.2 package ? akonadi from kde 4.2 wants it
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[18:13] <fred> nick01: a *qmysql* ?
[18:13] <fred> the qt4 mysql plugin is included in the qt4 package
[18:13] <fred> oh, that's current/testing
[18:14] <thrice`> you just need mysql for akonadi
[18:14] <nick01> fred, but its still complaining about it :( yeah I got it from current but the changelog said it is compatible with slack 12.2
[18:14] <thrice`> you need ap/mysql too.  is that installed?
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[18:15] <nick01> thrice`, yup but not running, that must be it
[18:15] <thrice`> I don't think so :|
[18:16] <nick01> thrice`, :/ let me see brb
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[18:20] <nick01> thrice`, yup that wasnt it, it says it only finds sqlite
[18:20] <nick01> and it needs qmysql
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[18:20] <thrice`> you have mysql and qt4 installed ?
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[18:21] <thrice`> ls /var/log/packages/qt*  ?
[18:21] <nick01> ls /var/log/packages/qt*
[18:21] <nick01> /var/log/packages/qt-3.3.8b-i486-2  /var/log/packages/qt-r912655-i486-1
[18:22] <nick01> thrice`, kde wouldnt have started at all otherwise
[18:22] <fred> nick01: argh
[18:22] <fred> remove the package qt-3.3.8b-*
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[18:22] <thrice`> you shouldn't have qt3.  you mixed the two
[18:22] <fred> reinstall the qt-r*
[18:22] <nick01> ok
[18:22] <fred> then install the qt3 (not qt-3*) package from kde3support
[18:22] <nick01> ok
[18:22] <fred> or whatever the directory is called :p
[18:23] <thrice`> compat, I think :)
[18:23] <clavius> looks like somebody didn't read
[18:23] <clavius> ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-current/testing/packages/kde4/README
[18:24] <nick01> heh
[18:24] <michiel> "what?? there is a readme??"
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[18:25] <Rat409>  /cl
[18:25] <andarius> denied again :P
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[18:25] <andarius> everyone knows those READMEs are encrypted
[18:25] <nick01> ok lets see now (if kdm doesnt refuse to start again)
[18:25] <nick01> LOL
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[18:27] <maxote> andarius, use rot13
[18:27] <andarius> negative, i said encrypted
[18:27] <lns40> andarius: there is no spoon
[18:28] <andarius> though... http://noobfarm.org/viewquote.php?id=830
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[18:29] <nick01> worked now, but I cant get the damn kdm to show up a second time, the option to terminate X in kdmrc doesnt help either :(
[18:30] <sahko> is google docs working for anyone? i cant get it to work for the last 2 days. its always "loading"
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[18:32] <clavius> nick01:  did you move/backup ~/.kde   also /etc/kde ?
[18:32] <eviljames> sahko: works fine for me
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[18:33] <nick01> clavius, move ? why ?
[18:33] <sahko> eviljames: with firefox?
[18:33] <clavius> it's what the README said to do
[18:34] <eviljames> sahko: yep.  I'm using spreadsheet & word right now actually
[18:34] <eviljames> sahko: and have been all day.
[18:34] <nick01> clavius, ok, but if its about a previous kde version I didnt have any
[18:34] <nick01> clavius, fresh install
[18:35] <sahko> eviljames: do you use google gears too?
[18:35] <eviljames> sahko: no, just docs...
[18:35] <sahko> for having access offline etc
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[18:48] <nick01> anybody else running kde 4.2 with nvidia drivers ? (180.22) cant get kdm back again after a logout
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[18:53] <_adrenaline> afternoon
[18:55] <Gargantua> anyone know what 3ghz is per sec?
[18:55] <tank-man> 3ghz
[18:55] <tank-man> is that a trick question?
[18:56] <Gargantua> no
[18:56] <Gargantua> hertz measure frequency, right?
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[18:56] <Gargantua> time/frequency?
[18:56] <nullboy> umm
[18:56] <tank-man> 3ghz ^ -1 ?
[18:56] <fred> why is 'ab' in sbin?
[18:57] <fred> (not bin?)
[18:57] <nullboy> gigahertz: 1,000,000,000 periods per second
[18:57] <nullboy> .....
[18:57] <CaptObviousman> hmm, does slackware's crontab read out of /etc/cron.d?
[18:57] <fred> Gargantua: frequnecy = count / time
[18:57] <fred> 1hz = once per second
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[18:58] Action: jkwood pulls out the bonkstick and prepares to megahertz fred
[18:58] <Gargantua> thanks
[18:58] <Gargantua> so a 32bit 3ghz processor can process 1,000,000,000 32 bits per sec?
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[18:59] <jkwood> Erm... no.
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[18:59] <fred> a 3ghz can do *3*,000,000,000 /cycles/ per second
[19:00] <fred> some operations, even on a 32-bit variable, take more than one cycle
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[19:00] <Gargantua> what does a "cycle" compose of?
[19:00] <Gargantua> oh
[19:00] <Gargantua> ok
[19:00] <Gargantua> how do you define a cycle ?
[19:00] <jkwood> A closer approximation would be instructions, although that still doesn't allow for multi-cycle instructions
[19:00] <fred> Gargantua: find a textbook on computer architecture, and read it
[19:00] <fred> it's not trivial to explain.
[19:00] Action: jkwood harkens back to his days in machine org.
[19:01] <jkwood> They have entire courses dedicated to this idea, actually.
[19:02] <jkwood> Of course, the context is everything, so it's not *technically* a course on computer cycles, but oh weell.
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[19:02] <jkwood> Hmm... not enough w's.
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[19:03] <alisonken1lap> Gargantua: in my pre-computer days, it was shorthand for a motorcycle :)
[19:04] <Gargantua> lol
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[19:04] <_adrenaline> alisonken1home, what motorcycle do you ride?
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[19:04] <CaptObviousman> no one knows?
[19:04] <alisonken1lap> before I got married this time, it was a honda goldwing 1000
[19:05] <alisonken1lap> since I
[19:05] Action: _adrenaline rides a cbr1000rr Repsol
[19:05] <alisonken1lap> 've been married this time, she won't let me get one
[19:05] <_adrenaline> seems like you might need a divorce hehe
[19:05] <_adrenaline> jk
[19:06] <alisonken1lap> already divorced - this one's a keeper, even if she won't let me have a cycle
[19:06] <alisonken1lap> :)
[19:06] <_adrenaline> I am not sure what I would do if my G/F told me to get rid of my bikes
[19:07] <alisonken1lap> would have probably been different if I hadn't sold it before we got married, but since I didn't have one when we got married, she won't let me get another one
[19:08] <maxote> who's she?
[19:08] <CaptObviousman> looks like no
[19:08] <CaptObviousman> nothing's showing up in my logs from my test script
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[19:08] <alisonken1lap> maxote: ?
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[19:12] <blkdg> hi, i'm trying to get amarok to work with my 5th Gen ipod video that is listed as supported 'http://amarok.kde.org/wiki/Media_Device:IPod#Supported_Devices'.  when i read the common problems section of the wiki it discussed (''post-disconnect command' (e.g. 'umount %d && eject %d') '.  as i learned last night, my ipods mount point is /media/ipodname.  does that mean my post disconnect...
[19:12] <blkdg> ...command is unmount /media/ipodname && eject /media/ipodnam ? i'm on my win partition right now, as i'm reading the wiki, so i can't test this.
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[19:21] <username17> I can't think of the name, so I can't google it. But when I open any terminal window it shows Bash3.1$
[19:21] <username17> how can I change what comes before the $? What is that called
[19:22] <blkdg> .bashprofile ?
[19:22] <blkdg> i don't know
[19:22] <ejm> prompt
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[19:22] <alisonken1lap> try "cat .bashprofile
[19:22] <alisonken1lap> "
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[19:22] <blkdg> hey hey, i got one :)
[19:22] <alisonken1lap> what you're looking for is the "PS1....." variable
[19:23] <alisonken1lap> sorry - "PS1=......."
[19:23] <username17> thanks both of you
[19:24] <username17> ahh, I'll just edit /bash/profile so it's universal. Thanks, been a few years since I touched linux.
[19:24] <alisonken1lap> in slackware, the default should be " PS1='\u@\h:\w\$ ' " (without the double-quote)
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[19:25] <alisonken1lap> or maybe you were thinking /etc/profile ?
[19:25] <blkdg> thanks anyhow /part
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[19:25] <spook> lol
[19:26] <username17> yah sorry/ etc/profile so it's univ
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[19:28] <username17> @ alisonken1lap: The user@host only shows when I'm in root
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[19:28] <username17> otherwise it's Bash3.1$
[19:29] <username17> read the manpage on the bash config. If I put the PS1= in a .bashrc then it sould stick every time I open a new terminal window
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[19:31] <alisonken1lap> check the "if ..... elif ...... else .... fi" around line 56 of /etc/profile (if it's a slackware distro) - that is unless you've modified something (also check ~/.bashrc"
[19:31] <alisonken1lap> )
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[19:34] <clavius> username17: how do you open said terminal window ?
[19:35] <username17> through the fluxbox menu. There are no command line options in the menu. so it should be a default window
[19:35] <username17> I think I see the problem. When I open a terminal window $TERM is "xterm"
[19:35] <username17> shouldn't it be bash?
[19:36] <clavius> i don't run flux, but there should be a way to make it a login shell, that will have the prompt you desire
[19:36] <alisonken1lap> no - xterm is the terminal emulator
[19:36] <nullboy> username17: what term are you using?
[19:36] <nullboy> oh
[19:36] <nullboy> nm
[19:37] <clavius> xterm -ls
[19:37] <alisonken1lap> terminal emulator (or console if not in X) just passes keystrokes/text between your shell and the interface
[19:38] <username17> ok, xterm -ls now shows user@host
[19:38] <username17> echo $TERM still shows xterm. That ok?
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[19:38] <alisonken1lap> yes
[19:38] <username17> k
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[19:39] <alisonken1lap> like I said - $TERM is how to interpret the keystrokes/text interaction between your shell and interface - in a window (like xterm or compatibles), it's how to interpret the text between the shell and what you see
[19:40] <nullboy> i had to buy a USB keyboard today. i'm working on a job and the systems only accept USB, no PS/2 connectors!
[19:40] <nullboy> i've been able to skate by without a USB keyboard until now
[19:41] <alisonken1lap> I've got a bluetooth keyboard/mouse with usb wireless adapter set at the house. works great
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[19:41] <alisonken1lap> (especially from the lazyboy :) )
[19:41] <nullboy> yeah i really like my bluetooth mouse for my laptop
[19:41] <nullboy> haha
[19:42] <nullboy> lapptop has bt built in so i got a bt only mouse that doesn't need a separate dongle
[19:42] <nullboy> it's sweet
[19:42] <username17> I have a KVM hooked up to this computer. Just tested it out. Lost my mouse, but not my kb
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[19:45] <spook> i have KVM setup on this computer :P
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[19:46] <nullboy> i setup a client with a USB kvm and they love it
[19:46] <nullboy> just a two host kvm
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[19:49] <spook> um, i mean kernel vagina machine
[19:49] <nullboy> ah yeah i use that too
[19:50] <nullboy> i use kvm for pentesting
[19:50] <spook> its awesome.
[19:50] <mrselfpwn> you are talking about the console with multiple mouse/kb/and monitor inputs?
[19:50] <spook> not anymore
[19:50] <mrselfpwn> kvm
[19:50] <mrselfpwn> kvm switch
[19:50] <nullboy> mrselfpwn: both KVM hardware and KVM virtual machines
[19:50] <spook> google kvm, see what pops up
[19:50] <mrselfpwn> i see
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[19:51] <spook> nullboy: ATM Machine
[19:51] <nullboy> mrselfpwn: KVM is a peripheral switch and KVM is also kernel virtual machine
[19:51] <mrselfpwn> we use the KVM hardware in my job
[19:51] <mrselfpwn> i see
[19:51] <mrselfpwn> that always confused me
[19:51] <mrselfpwn> thank you
[19:51] <nullboy> \o/
[19:51] <spook> nullboy: ATM Teller Machine
[19:51] <mrselfpwn> well, so how do I set up the kernel version?
[19:52] <nullboy> automated teller machine
[19:52] <nullboy> beavis
[19:52] <spook> mrselfpwn: kvm is similar to vmware esx server
[19:52] <mrselfpwn> aye
[19:52] <nullboy> mrselfpwn: you need cpu support ofr kvm though
[19:52] <nullboy> for*
[19:52] <mrselfpwn> is it beter than  VirtualBox?
[19:52] <spook> nullboy: KVM virtual machine   ATM teller machine :P
[19:52] <spook> mrselfpwn: yes very
[19:52] <mrselfpwn> i see
[19:52] <nullboy> i like it better than vmware but i've never used vbox because i used kvm before vbox and i love it
[19:52] <spook> virtualbox pretty sure doesnt make full use of cpu virtualisation
[19:53] <mrselfpwn> last question.  How do I tell if I can support it?
[19:53] <kitche> nullboy: have you ever tried qemu with kvm?
[19:53] <nullboy> mrselfpwn: cat /proc/cpuinfo
[19:53] <spook> vmware server is VERY DIFFERENT to vmware esx server
[19:53] <nullboy> kitche: that's what i use
[19:53] <nullboy> kitche: the KVM external sources come with the modified qemu
[19:53] <nullboy> there's an SBo for it
[19:53] <spook> mrselfpwn: cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep svm   or vmx
[19:53] <mrselfpwn> so if it isn't there i just need to build it into the kernel?
[19:53] <nullboy> mrselfpwn: no
[19:53] <kitche> don't think qemu has to be modified anymore I believe from what I was told one day
[19:54] <spook> mrselfpwn: its already in your kernel
[19:54] <nullboy> mrselfpwn: you must have cpu hardware support for kvm or you have top use kqemu
[19:54] <mrselfpwn> heh, maybe not in mine
[19:54] <spook> try modprobe kvm-intel   or kvm-amd
[19:54] <nullboy> dude.
[19:54] <nullboy> it won't work without a supported cpu
[19:54] <spook> nullboy: which those modprobes will fail because of
[19:54] <nullboy> mrselfpwn: which cpu do you have?
[19:55] <mrselfpwn> i rebuilt my kernel.  I will have to check that I added it
[19:55] <mrselfpwn> core2 duo
[19:55] <nullboy> supported
[19:55] <mrselfpwn> good
[19:55] <spook> which core2 duo?
[19:55] <mrselfpwn> e6600
[19:55] <nullboy> it doesn't mater
[19:55] <nullboy> matter
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[19:55] <spook> yeah definately
[19:55] <nullboy> even the core duo without the "2" works
[19:55] <nullboy> that's what i use, an original core duo (not the core 2 duo)
[19:55] <mrselfpwn> actually there IS a difference
[19:55] <spook> i have a q9450, core 2 quad
[19:56] <straterra> It doesn't matter
[19:56] <spook> 45nm :)
[19:56] <straterra> both Core and Core 2 have VT
[19:56] <nullboy> yes i know
[19:56] <straterra> Core doesn't have x86_64 though
[19:56] <nullboy> coe just lacks em64t
[19:56] <spook> THIRD PARTY JYNX
[19:56] <nullboy> DAMN
[19:56] <mrselfpwn> heh
[19:56] <straterra> spook: I have that proc at work
[19:57] <spook> ot:  i "boob" jynx my gf, its awesome
[19:57] <nullboy> i'd boob jinx your girlfriend too
[19:57] <spook> for a client i setup their "server" with a tri core phenom
[19:58] <kitche> tri core?
[19:58] <kitche> never heard of a processor having only three cores
[19:58] <straterra> yeah..its a quad core with a bad core
[19:58] <nullboy> tri core is wicked...like that chick on total recall
[19:58] <spook> nullboy: while there is ample boobage to go round, i'll kill you if you touch her
[19:58] <straterra> so they only enable 3
[19:58] <nooper> lol nullboy
[19:58] <nullboy> spook: lol
[19:58] <spook> straterra: actually some of them arent manufacturing defects, they just disable it.
[19:59] <straterra> retarded
[19:59] <nullboy> sounds like Fail CPU .33333
[19:59] <spook> they manufacture the dies as a common sorce for both x3 and x4 phenoms.
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[20:00] <straterra> Well..yeah
[20:00] <spook> any QA failures of 1 core go to X3, and then they draw the QA passes into X4 and X3 depending on demand and other factors
[20:00] <straterra> its the same CPU
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[20:01] <spook> with the phenom 2 out, it was a cheap virt solution
[20:01] <spook> theres no vms running on it yet, but i forsee having to run win2k3 server.
[20:01] <spook> its only current job is as a file server.
[20:02] <straterra> 2k3server isn't too heavy
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[20:02] <nullboy> w2k3 R2 is actually pretty rad...at least as far as windows server family goes
[20:02] <spook> it will be most likely be running sql server if i do need it
[20:02] <nullboy> i don't mind working on R2
[20:02] <straterra> I use R2 at work..but I wish the CIO would let me move to 2k8
[20:02] <spook> i'd like to get 2k8 going, theres so many better things in that.
[20:03] <spook> like, WDS is not flakey.  and terminal connections arent limited to 2 + console
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[20:03] <spook> that always happens at work, 5 it staff try to use the 3 connections to our domain controller
[20:04] <nullboy> that terminal connection limit is bullshit if you ask me.
[20:04] <nullboy> i hate that
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[20:04] <spook> indeed.  fixed in 2k8
[20:04] <spook> and if you have the choice, get datacenter edition, because unlimited VMs!
[20:04] <straterra> I use 2k3 R2 Standard
[20:04] <straterra> I wish we went with a better license as I want to do clustering instead of dfs
[20:05] <spook> we have 2k3 datacenter, so we have file1, dc1, sql1, ssp1, etc...  all individual vms, self contained
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[20:05] <straterra> We use ESX..so..
[20:05] <spook> so do we
[20:05] <straterra> I have maybe..a dozen 2k3 servers as various VM's
[20:05] <straterra> The remote sites get physical 2k3 servers
[20:05] <spook> then again, we have 3 physical machines each with like 16 cpus and 64gb of ram
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[20:06] <straterra> right
[20:06] <spook> and a san with a quillion tb
[20:06] <nullboy> when you guys are using EXS in a production environment, is it done in a way where you'd have say, 6 windows up one for each VM or are the VMs kept in 'daemon' mode?
[20:06] <straterra> we use nas's instead of san's..for cost
[20:06] <nullboy> ESX**
[20:06] <spook> people rdp to the servers and do stuff
[20:06] <diabolix> so, if someone wrote a commercial application, and wrote a plugin for that application that used open source code, and distributed the plugin with the comercial application, what are the legal issues?
[20:07] <nullboy> i see
[20:07] <straterra> Yeah..people don't ever need console
[20:07] <straterra> infact..the only server people actually access is the terminal server
[20:07] <straterra> which I have very isolated
[20:07] <nullboy> swo the vms in that case just run in background mode and are available via rdp or vnc?
[20:07] <spook> nullboy: um, yeah? i'm just a temp.
[20:08] <straterra> yup
[20:08] <spook> theres some really cool cli-only utils for esx
[20:08] <straterra> indeed
[20:08] <nullboy> spook: i'm just askin, no combat. i've never used vms in production, only for testing
[20:08] <straterra> ESX is quite nice
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[20:08] <spook> like this thing that forks the running vm, applies patches, and merges it back into the running vm
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[20:08] <spook> with like 1 dropped packet
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[20:09] <spook> same for live machine migration.  then again xen does that
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[20:13] <nullboy> a bluetooth kvm you be cool
[20:13] <nullboy> would*
[20:14] <mrselfpwn> yeah
[20:14] <mrselfpwn> we use the hardware version a lot in my job
[20:14] <spook> i would like a pseudo kvm that lets me use my eeepc
[20:15] <nullboy> ACPI: \_SB_.PCI0.IDE0.SEC0.MAST - undocking
[20:15] <nullboy> ACPI: \_SB_.PCI0.IDE0.SEC0.MAST - docking
[20:15] <mrselfpwn> if you eat Trix cereal I think they come as a prize in the box sometimes
[20:15] <nullboy> warm swapping sata disks baby
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[20:19] <Gargantua_> Did anyone watch the uhaul car chase in cali?
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[20:20] <nullboy> my parents live right there
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[20:21] <nullboy> there was one last night, a GTA. he crashed though
[20:21] <nullboy> stole an SUV and crashed off the 210
[20:21] <straterra> o.O
[20:21] <mrselfpwn> what was the uhaul chase about?
[20:23] <nullboy> lol
[20:23] <alisonken1lap> Gargantua_: wasn't a uhaul if you're talking about the 210 freeway
[20:23] <alisonken1lap> it was an suv
[20:23] <Gargantua_> nah
[20:23] <Gargantua_> it was defiently a uhaul
[20:23] <nullboy> i'm litterally 5 minutes from oxnard, regarding the uhaul one
[20:23] <nullboy> gotta love CA
[20:23] <Gargantua_> http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream3&iref=lb100
[20:23] <nullboy> hahaha
[20:24] <alisonken1lap> ok - didn't hear about the oxnard one, just the suv on the 210 out by riverside
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[20:24] <Gargantua_> this lady almost jacked another vehicle
[20:24] <Gargantua_> it was awesomne
[20:24] <nullboy> i would have kicked that bitch's ass
[20:25] <nullboy> try to jack my truck...yeah right
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[20:25] <nullboy> oxnard is bad though
[20:25] <nullboy> don't go there
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[20:26] <stitchman> hrm, does slack have some sort of memory tester packaged in it?  i just installed a new gig o'ram in my lappy
[20:27] <straterra> just download and run memtest
[20:27] <straterra> make a floppy or cd and boot off of it
[20:27] <stitchman> thank you
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[20:36] <nullboy> has anyone used dell's driver support site lately? it's been lag city
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[20:38] <blkdg> hi, i was hunting around for this yesterday, and i'm still stuck: i am using slackware 12.2 and amarok 1.4.10 in kde 3.5.  my mount point is /dev/sda2 and kde sees it at /media/ipod.  i have try many post disconnect commands to get the do not disconnect warning to go away, but they don't work: umount /dev/sda2 && eject /dev/sda2 , kdeeject -q %d, kdeeject /dev/sda2, eject sda2, eject...
[20:38] <blkdg> .../dev/sda2.  what post disconnect command will work?
[20:40] <alisonken1home> try going to System->Storage Media and right-click on the mount point there, then selec "Unmount"/"Eject"
[20:43] <acidchild>  20:48:57 up 6 days,  5:27,  1 user,  load average: 4.95, 4.42, 3.62
[20:43] <acidchild> rippin' it up =X
[20:43] <alisonken1home> is that your kvm?
[20:44] <acidchild> no?
[20:44] <acidchild> its my desktop
[20:44] <alisonken1home> kook - wanna see my desktop uptime?
[20:44] <acidchild> -shrugs- 6days isn't much lol
[20:44] <alisonken1home> (and that's with the kid and wife hitting it every day)
[20:45] <acidchild> its the load average thats crazy atm
[20:45] <alisonken1home> 17:43:12 up 53 days, 11 min,  4 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00
[20:45] <blkdg> i'll try alisonken1home
[20:45] <alisonken1home> (except for some flash sites, like myspace and pbskids.org)
[20:45] <acidchild> ash@mx10:~$ uptime 17:45:26 up 219 days,  4:58,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
[20:45] <acidchild> ;)
[20:45] <alisonken1home> ok - don't make me go to the other office and get those uptimes :)
[20:45] <euzao> may I delete everything that is in /tmp?
[20:45] <acidchild> haha
[20:46] <alisonken1home> euzao: only on a reboot - X uses some sockets there for your desktop
[20:46] <acidchild> uptime isn't that amazing anymore
[20:46] <acidchild> computers are just too well made these days
[20:46] <alisonken1home> hasn't been amazing in linux for too many years
[20:46] <acidchild> yeah
[20:46] <alisonken1home> people seem to forget that
[20:46] <acidchild> but 4.95, 4.42, 3.62 <-- i rarlly see
[20:47] <alisonken1home> true - I usually only see those number (or higher) when on some ungodly flash sites
[20:48] <acidchild> haha i'm encoding :-)
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[20:49] <nullboy> that's brutal
[20:50] <alisonken1home> or when compiling something from sbo.org
[20:50] <nullboy> the only time i see that is with 2 VMs running while i compile a kernel and copy 12GB to a USB driver
[20:50] <nullboy> drive
[20:50] <alisonken1home> at the office I see those numbers a lot - but then, I'm crosscompiling openwrt then
[20:50] <blkdg> alisonken1home: if i go to mount the ipod with konqueror and then "System->Storage Media and right-click on the mount point there" i can select safety remove, which brings up a dialogue box that tells me that its unmounted but it can't be ejected.
[20:51] <alisonken1home> blkdg: typically, eject is to make sure that the buffers are flushed, if it's unmounted, you should be ok on removing after unmount
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[20:54] <blkdg> i've never connect my ipod to my linux partition, and several days ago i asked the same question regarding umount and eject, and i was told that umount did the trick, but after that, i lost the ability to write to the ipods db, and it became a horror show... eventually i had to boot my xp partition a few hours ago and reformat the ipod. so, i want to get this thing to disconnect.
[20:54] <acidchild>  21:01:04 up 6 days,  5:39,  1 user,  load average: 4.39, 4.64, 4.22
[20:54] <acidchild> nullboy: i'm watching a DVD and encoding one dvd on one core and another on both the cores
[20:55] <stitchman> i just umount my /mnt/ipod and yank the plug out, been working fine for years
[20:55] <acidchild> nullboy: model name      : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5000+
[20:55] <nullboy> man
[20:55] <nullboy> i need more CPU
[20:55] <zaltekk> using KDE3/Amarok you can set the "disconnect" button to issue the command "umount %m"
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[20:55] <zaltekk> and in konqueror right click the device and select automount
[20:56] <zaltekk> then when it asks if you want to open a new window select do nothing and tell it to always do that
[20:56] <blkdg> i tried the kdeeject -q %d zaltekk  and it tells me that the unmount worked but the eject dident...
[20:56] <zaltekk> yeah, it can't eject it
[20:56] <zaltekk> just change it to "umount %m"
[20:56] <blkdg> ok , one sec
[20:56] <acidchild> nullboy: hehe. what cpu you got?
[20:56] <zaltekk> the ipod will still say connected, but when you unplug it it will say it is safe to disconnect
[20:56] <acidchild> nullboy: getting root on a really phat box tomorrow
[20:57] <zaltekk> just never unplug it without telling amarok to disconnect or manually unmounting it
[20:57] <acidchild> i think its dual quad cores i might be wrong though
[20:57] <zaltekk> and never unplug it when it says "syncing" on the ipod
[20:57] <nullboy> acidchild: i mainly use my laptop which is a core duo 1.83 with 2GB ram. my home server is a P4HT 3.0GHZ
[20:57] <alisonken1home> blkdg: ^^^ key point from zaltekk
[20:57] <nullboy> that's all i got ;)
[20:58] <zaltekk> i did notice that amarok doesn't keep file names identical with what is on the ipod, so you will probably want to copy the ipod onto your slackware box and then erase the ipod
[20:58] <zaltekk> so that it doesn't duplicate files
[20:58] <zaltekk> either than or just play straight off and ipod
[20:59] <alisonken1home> and here I'm stuck with an Intel Celeron 2.4G at the house
[21:00] <blkdg> ok, so now my pre command is mount /dev/sda2 and my post command is umount %m. when i do that, the error goes away, but my ipod is still blinkning
[21:00] <zaltekk> it will still say it is connected
[21:01] <zaltekk> just unplug it while it is unmounted
[21:01] <blkdg> but it isn't i take it.
[21:01] <blkdg> thanks.
[21:01] <blkdg> a lot.
[21:01] <zaltekk> it is connected in the sense that the computer sees it
[21:01] <zaltekk> but it isn't unsafe to disconnect if it is unmounted
[21:02] <stitchman> yeah just umount and yank the plug
[21:02] <blkdg> if i look in /media after i unmount it's naturally not there, but the ipod still says do not disconnect after the umo9unt.
[21:02] <zaltekk> if i modify /etc/group directly, what must i do for the changes to take effect?
[21:03] <blkdg> thanks again.
[21:03] <stitchman> blkdg its fine, the ipod isnt as smart as yer pc
[21:03] <zaltekk> as far as i know there isn't a database of the groups(although maybe there is).  is it necessary to logout and back in?
[21:03] <nullboy> zaltekk: long out and back in is the method
[21:04] <zaltekk> okay, thanks
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[21:05] <PaddyMac> Hi all.
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[21:06] <actualmind> I'm looking for an x86-64 alternative to slackware , does anyone suggest any distro?
[21:07] <alisonken1home> slamd64
[21:07] <thrice`> slamd64; not an alternative, but a port :)
[21:07] <PaddyMac> I think there's one called Blue and White
[21:07] <actualmind> alisonken1home is that stable and realiable?
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[21:07] <alisonken1home> direct slackware port to x86_64 - IOW, if it's not in slackware, it's not in slamd64
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[21:07] <alisonken1home> actualmind: besides some servers I've heard about, I use it at work and at the church
[21:08] <alisonken1home> no problems that I've encountered
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[21:08] <actualmind> Humm...
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[21:08] <actualmind> gonna download and try , thanks alisonken1home
[21:08] <alisonken1home> np
[21:08] <thrice`> actualmind: yes, it works extremely well.  almost a clone of slackware, except it includes 32-bit compatability too
[21:08] <PaddyMac> http://www.bluewhite64.com/
[21:08] <alisonken1home> bluewhite64 is not really recommended - there may be some issues with it
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[21:09] <alisonken1home> (think some ripoff parts of slamd64 without attribution)
[21:09] <PaddyMac> I've never used it myself. I'm just aware of it as an option.
[21:09] <actualmind> slamd64 stills 12.1 =/
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[21:10] <alisonken1home> 12.2 is in rc state - it's a little behind slackware, but that's because fred is a college student in the UK, and he makes sure that it's a direct 64-bit build of slackware
[21:11] <zaltekk> Slamd64?
[21:11] <alisonken1home> yep
[21:11] <actualmind> I will download anyway, why patrick didn't made slackware 64bits yet?
[21:11] <alisonken1home> he has no current plans for 64-bit at this time.
[21:11] <nullboy> because he doesn't need it?
[21:11] <zaltekk> noone truely needs it
[21:11] <nullboy> it's a distro for him..remember
[21:12] <zaltekk> there isn't much performance improvement
[21:12] <actualmind> true...
[21:12] <actualmind> zaltekk I already used another distro in 32-bit and in 64-bit , the difference was huge (I was running from a live CD)
[21:12] <alisonken1home> but it has geek points to it :)
[21:12] <zaltekk> but there are immediate issues with binaries
[21:13] <zaltekk> actualmind: the only real difference i can think of is that registers are larger
[21:13] <actualmind> It was easy to see the difference using gimp...
[21:13] <zaltekk> which can improve code optimizations
[21:13] <alisonken1home> IOW - it has big-memory and big-disk support that 32bit has problems with
[21:13] <actualmind> zaltekk "only" that?!
[21:13] <zaltekk> actualmind: what else can it improve?
[21:13] <actualmind> -.-'
[21:14] <actualmind> You didn't get it...
[21:14] <alisonken1home> >4G ram support is one
[21:14] <zaltekk> oh :)
[21:14] <actualmind> It's not only
[21:14] <actualmind> being able to have larger registers
[21:14] <zaltekk> alisonken1home: can't you already get 64GB with PAE?
[21:14] <actualmind> make every operation faster
[21:14] <actualmind> *makes
[21:14] <nullboy> my laptop does PAE
[21:14] <thrice`> bah, pae is hackish :)
[21:14] <nullboy> i only have 2GB though
[21:14] <actualmind> damm mirror 11.1kb/s -.-'
[21:14] <alisonken1home> PAE is a workaround for large memory footprints - 64-bit is direct memory
[21:14] <actualmind> next mirror.
[21:15] <zaltekk> actualmind: i'm sure it is a performance increase.  however, i haven't experimented to see how big of an improvement it is
[21:16] <alisonken1home> I just know the difference between slackware 12.1 and slamd64 12.1 is (apparently) noticeable when doing things like starting programs and some other operations
[21:16] <zaltekk> i'm running 32-bit slackware just because i'm not familiar with the system yet(or linux in general) and didn't investigate to se how closely slamd64 follows slackware
[21:16] <zaltekk> *see
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[21:16] <nullboy> it's very close
[21:16] <zaltekk> is 64-bit the _only_ change?
[21:16] <nullboy> where possible, i believe yes
[21:17] <thrice`> a couple kernel options differ, there are extra packages (for 32-compatability)
[21:17] <alisonken1home> literally, the only difference between slackware and slamd64 is everything is compiled for 64bit - like I noted earlier, fred has stated that slamd64 _is_ slackware, just 64-bit slackware
[21:17] <zaltekk> and maybe a few weeks delay in releases?
[21:17] <nullboy> sometimes a bit more needs to happen
[21:17] <actualmind> I don't know how windows behave under 64bits but the only test that I did using linux was a big difference...
[21:17] <Wolven> Is pysqlite includd in the python package for Slack 12.2?
[21:17] <Wolven> included*
[21:17] <thrice`> Wolven: it should be; python was re-compiled to pick up sqlite support, yes
[21:17] <alisonken1home> last I checked, distros like bluewhite64 do other changes, so they're not really slackware anymore
[21:17] <Wolven> ok, thanks thrice`
[21:18] <thrice`> i haven't used bluewhite64 (and I won't for other political reasons), but the consensus is typically that slamd64 runs a little better
[21:19] <zaltekk> i'll probably try slamd64.  i just wanted to go ahead and get slackware installed and didn't feel like looking into it yet
[21:19] <alisonken1home> I think I looked at bluewhite when slackware was 12.0 - didn't like it for other reasons, then after finding out about slamd64 found out about some other issues as well
[21:20] <alisonken1home> sorry - slackware was at 11.1 when I looked at the 64-bit stuff
[21:20] <PaddyMac> alison: What kinds of issues?
[21:20] <alisonken1home> it claimed to be slackware derived, but there were some niggling issues that made it not-slackware like
[21:21] <alisonken1home> can't remember since it's been several years since I looked into it
[21:21] <PaddyMac> Oh.
[21:21] <alisonken1home> I've been satisfied with slamd64 for at least 2 years, so haven't looked at other alternatives
[21:22] <PaddyMac> I understand that minor issues can be too much. The first time I ever tried Slackware was version 21.1, and I got turned off quickly because my mouse scroll wheel didn't work. I don't think I kept it on my computer even 1 day.
[21:22] <alisonken1home> I've never had an issue with mouse scroll wheels or the touchpad on my laptop. both worked out of the box
[21:23] <alisonken1home> including the scrolling wheel on the mouse and the scrollpad on the touchpad
[21:23] <zaltekk> i at one point had an issue on another system with my usb mouse that has a high number of buttons being detected as a keyboard
[21:23] <PaddyMac> The only problems I've had with Slack 12.2 have been either things I've screwed up myself or things that don't seem to work on ANY Linux distro.
[21:23] <zaltekk> actually...it is detected as a mouse and a keyboard.  but freebsd7.0 saw it as _only_ a keyboard
[21:23] <PaddyMac> zaltekk: Interesting.
[21:24] <alisonken1home> the only issues I've had with slackware (and I've been using it since it was SLS-derived) have been my own pebkac's
[21:24] <nullboy> same here
[21:24] <nullboy> it's never fubar'd itself
[21:24] <nullboy> short of a disk failure at least
[21:25] <alisonken1home> ok - pebkac and hardware failures :)
[21:25] <nullboy> lol
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[21:26] <zaltekk> pebkac?
[21:27] <alisonken1home> zaltekk: I did have one issue with slamd64 on the church box - for some reason, it would sometimes not boot from the sata disk, and I would have to resort to booting from the dvd to reset lilo
[21:27] <alisonken1home> pebkac - "Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair"
[21:27] <zaltekk> that is odd.  did you try using it with grub?
[21:27] <zaltekk> ah
[21:28] <alisonken1home> slackware uses lilo - grub is available in /extra, but I like lilo since my booting needs were simple
[21:28] <nullboy> or the ID10T error
[21:28] <nullboy> eye dee ten tea
[21:28] <zaltekk> i actually just noticed something strange when i first rebooted with my runlevel set to 4
[21:28] <zaltekk> F2-F5 don't have agetty running
[21:28] <nullboy> in rl4 use F6 for console
[21:28] <zaltekk> only F6...so tty6
[21:28] <nullboy> you can change that
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[21:29] <alisonken1home> slackware standard - f6 is only enabled by default. you can change that in /etc/inittab
[21:29] <blkdg> ok, this is fustratting, i got a couple of albums on it, then one of the albums did not transfer at all. so then i used amarok to delete that 1/2 album from my ipod, and then the 'can't write to db messages began.
[21:29] <zaltekk> ah, but i was thinking they were all there before
[21:29] <zaltekk> so it seemed weird
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[21:29] <zaltekk> blkdg: what type of ipod?
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[21:29] <alisonken1home> rl4 is the only difference - f6 is enabled due to x issues. other runlevels setup f1-f6
[21:29] <PaddyMac> I've got Slackware installed partly as a learning experience, so I'm not too concerned if I screw something up. So just for kicks I installed GRUB 1.96 from source today. I was a bit surprised when I found that the old menu.lst had been replaced by grub.cfg, and there isn't very good documentation on the new version yet.
[21:30] <zaltekk> okay.  as long as that happens on purpose :)
[21:30] <blkdg> video 30GB 5th gen
[21:30] <nullboy> PaddyMac: you can look at the slackware grub install scripts if you want
[21:30] <zaltekk> did you set that in amarok?
[21:30] <blkdg> it's listed as usable by amarok
[21:30] <nullboy> PaddyMac: slackware does have grub in extra/
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[21:30] <PaddyMac> nullboy: Are the install scripts in the .tgz package?
[21:30] <nullboy> yes
[21:31] <nullboy> and a README
[21:31] <nullboy> PaddyMac: there is a tgz and source scripts too
[21:31] <PaddyMac> I'll check that out.
[21:31] <alisonken1home> and there's slackbuilds.org, too. along with sbopkg from _chess_
[21:32] <alisonken1home> and 12.2 has slackpkg available as default now instead of /extra (/testing?)
[21:32] <nullboy> PaddyMac: slackware-current/extra/source/grub/grub.SlackBuild
[21:32] <zaltekk> i just saw the comment about tty6 at the end of inittab
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[21:32] <zaltekk> which i should have noticed in the first place
[21:32] <alisonken1home> :)
[21:32] <nooper> i love it when my router decides its time to disconnect me from everything and reboot, all by itself
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[21:32] <Khratos> hahaha
[21:32] <nullboy> nooper: it's a girlfriend router!
[21:32] <alisonken1home> must not be running slackware on it, then
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[21:33] <blkdg> i set it as video 2nd Gen black zaltekk
[21:33] <blkdg> its a a1136
[21:33] <blkdg> ipod video.
[21:33] <zaltekk> nooper:  my dlink router would always drop my connection just long enough for me to timeout all of my connections
[21:33] <nullboy> my router runs openwrt
[21:33] <nullboy> it runs forever
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[21:33] <nooper> ya dlink here too
[21:33] <blkdg> why zaltekk ?
[21:34] <zaltekk> blkdg: my "iPod Classic" 80GB black has never had an issue reading or writing
[21:34] <blkdg> ...
[21:34] Nick change: TimothyPollard_ -> TimothPollard
[21:34] <blkdg> cool, i'm a pioneer
[21:34] <zaltekk> so i've never see the error you have
[21:34] <zaltekk> are you using vfat?
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[21:35] <blkdg> according to konqueror properties its vfat
[21:35] <blkdg> and it was set up in winxp.
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[21:35] <zaltekk> okay
[21:36] <zaltekk> all i can think of is to try backing up all of your music and then let windows itunes reformat the ipod
[21:36] <zaltekk> and make sure it is updated
[21:36] <ThunderWolf> Hi, i just installed SMS (Slack mini server) on my server pc, but every time i try to get on slackware logged as not-root i cant start startx. Im then send to a black screen with a bash command line
[21:37] <ThunderWolf> sorry for my bad english
[21:37] <blkdg> that's what i did earlier today. because my last romp with amarok wasn't plesent
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[21:37] <nullboy> ThunderWolf: i've never heard of slackware mini server
[21:37] <zaltekk> blkdg: maybe you should google for errors related to your ipod version
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[21:37] <ThunderWolf> nullboy ok, no problem. But it Slackware.
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[21:37] <nullboy> ThunderWolf: no, it's slackware mini server...not Slackware
[21:37] <BP{k}> ThunderWolf: perhaps http://sms.it-ccs.com/forum/ is the best way way to find support
[21:38] <nullboy> ...
[21:38] <zaltekk> all i know is that mine has worked great
[21:38] <BP{k}> "he liveCD created with linux-live scripts and the livecd's text-installer taken from Slax's development."
[21:38] <blkdg> thanks again for the help.
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[21:38] <ThunderWolf> oh come on it's slackware
[21:38] <PaddyMac> nullboy: I went to the directory you pointed me to. I don't know if this will be helpful because all the stuff there is for GRUB 0.97. I installed GRUB 1.96, which is a sort of beta for GRUB 2, and they've made some changes since what is now called "GRUB Legacy"
[21:38] <nullboy> ThunderWolf: no, it is not Slackware, it is slackware mini server
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[21:38] <ThunderWolf> and the startx wont work different from one distro to the other
[21:39] <ThunderWolf> ahaha
[21:39] <ThunderWolf> i thought i needed help
[21:39] <zaltekk> it is "mini server".  why would you even install X?
[21:39] <ThunderWolf> but you guys need it more than i do
[21:39] <BP{k}> ThunderWolf: yeah .. and debian doesn't patch the hell out of their sources neither.
[21:39] <ThunderWolf> zaltekk it's for fun
[21:39] <ThunderWolf> great help, thanks alot
[21:39] <zaltekk> ThunderWolf: his point is that it isn't created by Slackware.  therefore, it isn't going to operate the same.  your slackware mini server distro is either broken or not configured properly
[21:40] <PaddyMac> I have GRUB 1.96 instaleld and am booting to Slackware and Windows XP with no trouble. I'd just like to get better documentation so I can tinker with more than the most basic configuration.
[21:40] <antler> BP{k}: hey there :)
[21:40] <zaltekk> however, if you try slackware itself and still have the problem, we might have enough information to help you fix the problem.
[21:40] <BP{k}> antler: hey. how goes? :)
[21:40] <ThunderWolf> zaltekk im sure that what i get its something really normal to happend, but as i dont know slackware really well i came and asked here
[21:40] <andarius> ThunderWolf: install slackware and come back and i bet you would get help...
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[21:41] <antler> BP{k}: good. and you?
[21:41] <ThunderWolf> look, just for you guys
[21:41] <zaltekk> ThunderWolf: if nothing else, give more information
[21:41] <ThunderWolf> in gonna turn on my slcakware pc
[21:41] <zaltekk> and then someone might be able to help
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[21:41] <PaddyMac> A friend went hunting last Sunday and gave me some deer steaks. I cooked 'em up tonight. That was very tasty. I don't think I've ever had deer steaks before.
[21:41] <ThunderWolf> and im gonna start x with a non-root account
[21:41] <BP{k}> as you should.
[21:42] Action: ThunderWolf not enough keyboards :S
[21:42] <zaltekk> PaddyMac: to me venison is just extra tasty and lean beef
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[21:42] Nick change: n1hub -> nlhub
[21:42] <zaltekk> (if i spelled venison right...)
[21:43] <antler> hm, someone's into eating baby mammals?
[21:43] <zaltekk> not veil
[21:43] <antler> oh right :P
[21:43] <PaddyMac> The flavor, to me, was slightly reminiscent of liver (which I like). I kept teh recipe simple and breaded it and baked it with shiitake mushrooms and chopped onions. Along with the mashed potatoes and beer, I was quite satisfied!
[21:44] <alisonken1home> zaltekk: I think you mean "veal" or "eggs" :)
[21:44] <zaltekk> alisonken1home: maybe it is veal.  the word for baby cow or whatever.
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[21:44] <zaltekk> venison refers to hunting meat.  although i've never heard it used to mean anything other than deer.
[21:44] <alisonken1home> baby cow fed milk only and kept in a tight cage until butchered is veal
[21:44] <PaddyMac> alison: I'm glad you mentioned that. I should go to the grocery store for eggs for tomorrow's breakfast before i go to bed tonight.
[21:44] <zaltekk> okay, then veal is what i meant.
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[21:45] <ThunderWolf> https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/unable-to-startx-as-non-root-user-255957/
[21:45] <alisonken1home> veil is what you wear or part of a non-direct threat :)
[21:45] <ThunderWolf> what a coincidence.. it's on slackware
[21:45] <mrselfpwn> acidchild
[21:45] <ThunderWolf> Wow!
[21:46] <andarius> ThunderWolf: actualy that post leads me to think it is a config issue, which is not specific to slackware
[21:46] <alisonken1home> ThunderWolf: Wow! it was a 10.0 problem, too!
[21:46] <zaltekk> ThunderWolf: when i install Xorg i always delete any provided xorg.conf and then run Xorg -configure as root
[21:46] <zaltekk> then use that config file
[21:47] <acidchild> ?
[21:47] <zaltekk> and modify it is necessary(i've never had to before)
[21:47] <mrselfpwn> douche
[21:47] <andarius> and what alisonken1home said :)
[21:47] <ThunderWolf> So what do i have to do?
[21:47] <zaltekk> alisonken1home: it was also a problem that didn't exist in the fresh install.  and it was fixed by reinstalling X(so it was probably something the user did to break it)
[21:48] <alisonken1home> could be
[21:48] <PaddyMac> zaltek: And I thought I was being original when i did that.
[21:48] <mrselfpwn> just thinking of you is all
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[21:48] <zaltekk> ThunderWolf: you haven't even given us the error output.  all i can suggest is running Xorg -configure as root and then using that new config
[21:48] <antler> i sense a moment between the two developing
[21:49] <BP{k}> antler: pretty good. migrated my VPS to another datacenter, had good beer ;)
[21:49] <alisonken1home> ThunderWolf: did you do a full install of slackware?
[21:49] <ThunderWolf> yep
[21:49] <mrselfpwn> beer good
[21:49] <mrselfpwn> work bad
[21:49] <zaltekk> alisonken1home: he is running "Slackware Mini Server"
[21:49] <acidchild> is it very small?
[21:49] <acidchild> :P
[21:49] <PaddyMac> Beer is good. I'm having a Michelob amber bock right now.
[21:49] <zaltekk> who knows.
[21:49] <antler> BP{k}: ah, a good beer is always nice ;-)
[21:50] <mrselfpwn> yes indeed
[21:50] <zaltekk> i think i'm about to get a 6 of warsteiner
[21:50] <mrselfpwn> nice
[21:50] <PaddyMac> I'm fortunate that I actually like my job
[21:50] <zaltekk> and something to eat with it.
[21:50] <BP{k}> http://www.bateman.co.uk/Beers/btautumnfall.htm <-- beer I had :D
[21:50] <alisonken1home> hmmmmm ..... as noted, "Slackware mini server" != "Slackware"
[21:50] <ThunderWolf> lol
[21:50] <zaltekk> i've never seen bateman in the states
[21:51] <alisonken1home> ThunderWolf: was that a full install of "slackware" or a full install of "slackware mini server"?
[21:51] <PaddyMac> Warsteiner... I'm not sure if I've had that. Isn't it a very dark beer?
[21:51] <ThunderWolf> os sms
[21:51] <ThunderWolf> *of SMS
[21:51] <zaltekk> PaddyMac: there are multiple versions of it.  at ingles here they have an amber and a dark version
[21:51] <BP{k}> PaddyMac: http://www.freewebs.com/dbc-warsteiner/WarsteinerBanner275.jpg
[21:51] <zaltekk> i tend to stay away from anything that is dark
[21:52] <alisonken1home> ThunderWolf: ok - you need to check with the SMS guys. it's using slackware as a base, but they may be doing other things that are outside of slackware control
[21:52] <zaltekk> alisonken1home: multiple people have explained this to him.  and he still hasn't tried any of our suggestions or provided any error messages.
[21:52] <andarius> BP{k}: is that a good one
[21:52] <briareus> how can I tell if I have festival installed?  I see kdeaccessibility, but I don't find festival at either Sbo or on official mirrors, is it installed already?
[21:53] <acidchild> nullboy: top - 21:59:42 up 6 days,  6:37,  1 user,  load average: 5.63, 5.53, 5.49
[21:53] <alisonken1home> zaltekk: :)
[21:53] <acidchild> thats jokes
[21:53] <acidchild> 5.5 average
[21:53] <thrice`> jesus
[21:53] <BP{k}> andarius: it's nice .. rather bitter and dark .. nicely hopped too :)
[21:54] <acidchild> computers not lagging in the slightest.
[21:54] <acidchild> linux <3
[21:54] <gm152> I remember that Xorg.0.log - Xorg.-.log.old error .. that was generated because /usr/bin/X wasn't setuid.
[21:54] <zaltekk> 4 users
[21:54] <zaltekk> not sure why it says that...
[21:54] <clavius> briareus: it's not installed by default, good luck with that one
[21:55] <alisonken1home> acidchild: what do you have the timing frequency set to?
[21:55] <acidchild> i dunno, how would i find that out?
[21:55] <zaltekk> ah.  because it is counting X and all my terminal windows.
[21:55] <briareus> clavius: yeah not having much so far, I'm still amazed that packages that seem ubiquitous elsewhere are longer to track down here in slack
[21:56] <briareus> clavius: I mean I'll get it, but its nowhere near as fast as it could be :)
[21:57] <alisonken1home> acidchild: zgrep HZ_ /proc/config.gz
[21:57] <clavius> i mean good luck with getting that to work, i tried once, gave up quickly, quite involved
[21:57] <acidchild> CONFIG_HZ_250=y
[21:57] <briareus> clavius: well I had no luck finding a quick install of espeak for slack, so I was looking at festival
[21:57] <briareus> ran into dependency crap I don't understand
[21:57] <alisonken1home> ok - that's a good frequency for responsiveness (according to notes in menuconfig)
[21:58] <acidchild> :P
[21:58] <antler> alisonken1home: i thought 1000 was good for responsiveness
[21:58] <antler> ...and that 100 and 250 were good for server use
[21:59] <acidchild> my box at 250hz is very nice and responcive =)
[21:59] <briareus> "Slackware is designed for users who prefer to be in complete control of their system. They swear by Slackware's package management system and will have it no other way. However, another other group of users, spoiled by the one-click installation systems of newer distributions, fail to understand Slackware's lack of dependency resolution."
[21:59] <alisonken1home> depends on your end use of hte kernel
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[21:59] <alisonken1home> antler: look at menuconfig options for timer frequency - it depends on what you want the box to be used for
[21:59] <briareus> forget it, I'm going with slapt-get, I'm tired with futzing around
[22:00] <alisonken1home> did you try slackpkg?
[22:00] <euzao> is thre a bug in gxine?
[22:00] <ananke> briareus : it's not like slapt-get is going to solve dependency issues
[22:00] <briareus> it doesn't do what I want
[22:00] <euzao> gxine: error while loading shared libraries: libmozjs.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
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[22:00] <alisonken1home> I tried slapt-get - went back to sbopkg since I prefer to know what packages are being installed rather than what the package manager _thinks_ should be installed.
[22:00] <ananke> euzao : looks like you don't have that library installed. not a bug.
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[22:01] <euzao> but it seems weird, because that lib is from firefox
[22:01] <briareus> alisonken1home: I like sbopkg too, but I still run into 40-50% of the things I look for are neither there or in offical mirrors
[22:01] <twolf> euzao: seems that gxine wants that lib from seamonkey for some reason
[22:01] <ananke> alisonken1home : that's a false logic. knowing what packages are being installed has nothing to do with what packages will be installed
[22:01] <euzao> ahhh
[22:02] <acidchild> what repo does slapt-get use?
[22:02] <alisonken1home> ananke: depends on the package manager and how you use it
[22:02] <ananke> acidchild : whatever repo you tell it. by default it uses slackware mirrors
[22:02] <nullboy> i just rsync to a -current mirror as well as SBo
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[22:02] <acidchild> ananke: i see...
[22:02] <acidchild> ananke: so its not got its own repos?
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[22:03] <ananke> alisonken1home : i don't know many package managers that wouldn't tell you what packages they'll install
[22:03] <euzao> twolf, it is wrong, isn't it?
[22:03] <twolf> euzao: I guess that is subjective
[22:03] <ananke> acidchild : nope. well, technically it has its own repo, which only contains slapt-get package [useful for keeping it up to date]
[22:03] <alisonken1home> I just remember trying slapt-get about a year ago. Preferred sbopkg.
[22:04] <ananke> alisonken1home : slapt-get tells you what packages it will install
[22:04] <alisonken1home> I'm going to be looking at slackpkg when I upgrade to 12.2 soon
[22:04] <BP{k}> slapt-get and sbopkg are two complete different applications anyway.
[22:05] <alisonken1home> different philosophies as well
[22:05] <ananke> BP{k} : i was about to comment on that too. sbopkg is aimed at slackbuilds. slapt-get is for managing packages
[22:05] <BP{k}> ananke: aye. I am actually planning to try out slapt-get in a vm at $point in $future_timeline.
[22:06] <BP{k}> just to see what it does and how it does it.
[22:06] <alisonken1home> I may revisit it soon as well. like I noted, at the  time I tried it, I preferred sbopkg
[22:06] <ananke> i'm actually trying out virtualbox for the first time tonight. it's ok
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[22:06] <ananke> alisonken1home : it's like saying that you prefer blenders over motorcycles
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[22:06] <alisonken1home> wrong metaphores :)
[22:07] <BP{k}> hmm v8 powered blenders? ;)
[22:07] <ananke> BP{k} : haha, i saw that
[22:07] <twolf> motorcycles ftw
[22:07] <alisonken1home> "Tim Taylor Strikes Again"
[22:07] <BP{k}> ananke: yeah especially the 2.1.x of Vbox should be good with decent networkig support (and no longer have to use a bridge)
[22:07] <ananke> alisonken1home : it's a valid analogy. sbopkg and slapt-get don't do the same tasks
[22:08] <ananke> BP{k} : hmm, i'm using 2.0.x freebie edition
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[22:08] <alisonken1home> they both manage packages - but in a different way. blenders and motorcycles aren't even in the same building
[22:08] <gm152> I'm using 2.0.6 OSE at work.  It's fine.
[22:08] <BP{k}> alisonken1home: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7WC9mNZaLJs (the v7 blender)
[22:08] <BP{k}> s/7/8/
[22:08] <ananke> alisonken1home : sbopkg hardly manages packages. they're not even packages when you begin working
[22:08] <twolf> bass-o-matic 2000
[22:09] <briareus> great skit
[22:09] <alisonken1home> cute youtube video :)
[22:09] <BP{k}> ananke: yeah, me as well, I am waiting on pprkut to get a buildscript for 2.1.2
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[22:10] <maxote> gm152, 2.1.2 is released, many people comment that it's enough stable
[22:10] <alisonken1home> ananke: end results are the same - although sbopkg does not have an uninstall option
[22:11] <antler> man it's nice to see that my dl speeds are 1mb+ /sec \o/
[22:11] <ananke> alisonken1home : hardly. with sbopkg i can't install the official packages. with sbopkg i can't remove packages.
[22:11] <gm152> maxote:  Thanks.  I'll have a look.  Virtualbox's web has 2.1.0 available for download last time I checked which was over a week ago.
[22:11] <briareus> cant install?
[22:12] <maxote> i downloaded it from gentoo's
[22:12] <briareus> oh, official
[22:12] <gm152> s/has/had/
[22:12] <antler> 2.1.2 is available
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[22:13] <maxote> http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/2.1.2/VirtualBox-2.1.2-OSE.tar.bz2
[22:13] <alisonken1home> hmmm - last I checked, slackbuilds.org is based on the basic scripts pat uses, along with a few extras that conform to slackware standards
[22:13] <PaddyMac> I wish I had broadband at home!
[22:14] <gm152> Thanks for the link.
[22:14] <ananke> alisonken1home : that doesn't magically make some random sbo scripts into official slackware packages
[22:14] <PaddyMac> Even the public library's wifi has been messed up since this past weekend.
[22:14] <ananke> alisonken1home : not to mention the obvious: sbo doesn't replicate all of the slackware packages
[22:14] <alisonken1home> neither does slapt-get by that reason as well
[22:14] <maxote> no problem ;)
[22:15] <alisonken1home> nope - sbo just replicates the build scripts
[22:15] <BP{k}> ananke: seen the v8 powered rocking chair??
[22:15] <ananke> BP{k} : not yet
[22:15] <BP{k}> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KrVN7WeWbME
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[22:16] <ananke> alisonken1home : slapt-get works with slackware official repos. sbo doesn't.
[22:16] <ananke> with sbopkg i can't install bash from slackware repos. with slapt-get i can.
[22:17] <alisonken1home> nope - with sbopkg, you get the script that compiles bash for your machine and makes a slackware package for it, then allows you to call installpkg to install it
[22:17] <twolf> my uncle built a log splitter with a 302 chevy engine
[22:17] <SupernalTriad> http://www.masterplanthemovie.com/
[22:17] <ananke> i'm not sure how more clear the difference can be: slapt-get is essentially a front-end for curl/installpkg/upgradepkg/removepkg. sbopkg is a front-end for fetching build scripts, running them, and installing the resulting package.
[22:18] <ananke> alisonken1home : with sbopkg you don't get the script that compiles bash, since bash isn't in the slackbuilds.org scripts
[22:18] <alisonken1home> the point being a blender is not the same league as a motorcycle - at least sbopkg and slapt-get are in the same class
[22:19] <ananke> they're not in the same class. they don't do anything similar
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[22:19] <antler> heh depends on how the class is defined :P
[22:19] <ananke> one cannot replace the other, and vice versa
[22:20] <ananke> BP{k} : looks like the same v8 engine :)
[22:20] <alisonken1home> that's still like saying that debian is the same as slackware - at least they both are based on the same platform.
[22:20] <SupernalTriad> blasphemy
[22:20] <mrselfpwn> you can't fix stupid
[22:20] <alisonken1home> a blender is not the same as a motorcycle - despite Tim Taylor, you can't use a blender to get to work
[22:20] <ananke> alisonken1home : i can use debian and slackware to accomplish the same task. i can't use sbopkg to replace slapt-get, and i can't use slapt-get to replace sbopkg
[22:21] <BP{k}> ananke: yeah , I think it is.. It should feautre more often ;)
[22:21] <SupernalTriad> i can use emerge on slackware
[22:21] <mrselfpwn> how?
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[22:21] <SupernalTriad> how do you think?  hacked it
[22:22] <mrselfpwn> heheh
[22:22] <mrselfpwn> figured that
[22:22] <SupernalTriad> you can also just run it in a chroot
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[22:22] <mrselfpwn> that is cool though
[22:22] <mrselfpwn> though i wouldn't even want to do it
[22:22] <SupernalTriad> so you can have a full gentoo system in a chroot
[22:22] <SupernalTriad> and launch x apps and anything
[22:23] <nullboy> krdc is rad
[22:23] <SupernalTriad> static linking helps
[22:23] <mrselfpwn> but it is still cool you did that
[22:23] <SupernalTriad> im also your father
[22:23] <mrselfpwn> no
[22:23] <mrselfpwn> luke
[22:23] <mrselfpwn> i'm your father
[22:23] <SupernalTriad> you type slowly
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[22:23] <alisonken1home> interesting. I've used both slapt-get and sbopkg to install packages of software that I wanted to install. slapt-get has some extra stuff, but that's what I used both for. from my perspective, they both are in the same class.
[22:23] <mrselfpwn> i'm playing poker as well
[22:24] <mrselfpwn> so i have to use the mouse for that
[22:24] <SupernalTriad> i played poker with your mother, son
[22:24] <mrselfpwn> son
[22:24] <mrselfpwn> i didn't raise you like that
[22:24] <ananke> alisonken1home : case and point: install me the official slackware's bash package with sbopkg. case #2: install me songbird with slapt-get.
[22:24] <mrselfpwn> this is like that weird game
[22:24] <mrselfpwn> wtf is it called
[22:25] <mrselfpwn> where you complete others sentences?
[22:25] <SupernalTriad> conversation for you
[22:25] <ananke> mrselfpwn : it's called marriage
[22:25] <twolf> hehe
[22:25] <mrselfpwn> oh yes, Marraige
[22:25] <mrselfpwn> dam beat me to it
[22:25] <mrselfpwn> lol
[22:25] <alisonken1home> ananke: maybe another time - right now I have to go pick up the kid
[22:25] <SupernalTriad> i never married your mother, that i regret
[22:25] <twolf> that is why I drink beer
[22:25] <mrselfpwn> yes i'm sure
[22:25] <ananke> alisonken1home : here's a hint: you won't be able to do it
[22:26] <BP{k}> ananke: but why would you want to install songbird? ;)
[22:26] <ananke> BP{k} : it was just the first thing i saw on my slackbuild.org mirror :)
[22:26] <mrselfpwn> well, if the Demos stay in congress long you probably will be able to marry your own mother soon.
[22:26] <limac> anybody noticed how some of the times Kate's terminal malfunctions?
[22:26] <SupernalTriad> why would you want to install black
[22:26] <SupernalTriad> err bash
[22:26] <SupernalTriad> ksh rapes bash
[22:26] <ananke> SupernalTriad : your choice of words is quite peculiar
[22:27] <antler> hahah
[22:27] <mrselfpwn> guys
[22:27] <SupernalTriad> ananke, ur faec is quite peculiar
[22:27] <mrselfpwn> i'm just googing off here at my hotel and....
[22:27] <SupernalTriad> burnn
[22:27] <alisonken1home> ananke: btw - why would I want to install the official packages from slapt-get when I already have the disks?
[22:27] <mrselfpwn> dun dun dun
[22:27] <SupernalTriad> mrselfpwn, call an escort
[22:28] <mrselfpwn> I can ssh into their router just fine
[22:28] <SupernalTriad> or are you asexual?
[22:28] <ananke> alisonken1home : not 'from slapt-get' but 'with slapt-get'. slapt-get is not some kind of repository
[22:28] <limac> ah well, later fellas ;)
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[22:28] <mrselfpwn> i am SupernalTriad thanks for asking
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[22:28] <SupernalTriad> mrselfpwn, secure it for them and give the front desk the password when you check out
[22:28] <mrselfpwn> lol
[22:28] <mrselfpwn> yes i would
[22:28] <alisonken1home> ananke: other than hairsplitting - the question still stands- why would I want to use slapt-get for official packages when I have the disks?
[22:28] <SupernalTriad> but you can go to jail for that
[22:28] <mrselfpwn> when i ssh in it says type help for commands
[22:28] <SupernalTriad> alisonken1home, because you aren't ananke
[22:29] <ananke> alisonken1home : two scenarios: 1) you don't have the disks, 2) you want the latest patched version from slackware's patches
[22:29] <ananke> SupernalTriad : is your mental retardation something you work hard on every day?
[22:29] <mrselfpwn> I typed that and got the command list, though when I try to do a command i get permission denied or command not found.
[22:29] <alisonken1home> ananke: 1) - I have subscription 2) - ok, may grant you some points on that one
[22:29] <mrselfpwn> It's busybox btw
[22:29] <SupernalTriad> sarchasm
[22:30] <mrselfpwn> any ideas on that one?
[22:30] <ananke> alisonken1home : 1) not everybody has subscription. not to mention, not everybody bothers being a disc jokey when they have multiple machines
[22:30] <SupernalTriad> ananke, are you making pearls in your sandy vagina or diamons in your ass?
[22:30] <alisonken1home> don't need disk jockey - have central fileserver with copies of official disks - that also get updated with security patches
[22:30] <rk4n3> never heard that one before
[22:31] <SupernalTriad> i made it up just for you guys
[22:31] <mrselfpwn> again i'm just goofing off with it
[22:31] <alisonken1home> network updates work great from local systems
[22:31] <ananke> alisonken1home : so now you have to make a mirror. again, how does sbopkg allow you to install the patched bash?
[22:31] <mrselfpwn> is it a user permission thing?  why I can't run the listed commands in busy box.
[22:31] <ananke> with slapt-get i can either point at my local mirror, local disks, or remote slack mirror, and simply get the latest bash
[22:32] <SupernalTriad> who is using -current
[22:32] <mrselfpwn> is it a user permission thing?  why I can't run the listed commands in busy box.
[22:32] <SupernalTriad> type passwd
[22:32] <mrselfpwn> hmm
[22:32] <mrselfpwn> i can give it a shot.
[22:32] <mrselfpwn> thanks for the advice
[22:32] <SupernalTriad> see if its running port 80?
[22:33] <alisonken1home> ananke: like I said - my setup doesn't require a full-blown slapt-get setup. I only need sbopkg for those parts that are not on official slackware discs
[22:33] <mrselfpwn> well
[22:33] <mrselfpwn> they are running ssh on the standard port
[22:33] <SupernalTriad> wow...even slackware cant get away from all the handholding package managers
[22:33] <alisonken1home> and even then, only on the fileserver
[22:33] <ananke> alisonken1home : your situation doesn't change the fact that sbopkg and slapt-get's functionality are not the same
[22:33] <mrselfpwn> and yes they are running on port 80
[22:34] <mrselfpwn> but the thing is
[22:34] <mrselfpwn> they changed from default to something different on that port
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[22:34] <mrselfpwn> they didn't change the telnet or the ssh pass
[22:34] <alisonken1home> slapt-get is extra functionality that sbopkg does not have - but they are still basically used fo repository package selection
[22:35] <ananke> alisonken1home : wrong again. one cannot replace the other, and vice versa
[22:35] <mrselfpwn> so port 80 is out unless i know the pass
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[22:35] <alisonken1home> alisonken1home: now if you compared a yugo to a mac truck - we wouldn't be having this discussion :)
[22:35] <alisonken1home> ananke: sorry - that was for you
[22:35] <ananke> alisonken1home : try it. get me the latest openssl from slackware's patches via sbopkg.
[22:35] <Dominian> slackpkg download openssl
[22:36] <Dominian> :P
[22:36] <ananke> Dominian : haha
[22:36] <Dominian> I have a feeling someone is getting slackpkg and sbopkg mixed up
[22:36] <mrselfpwn> i'm actually doing this because the IT personal they hired are not doing their job.
[22:36] <ananke> yeah, slackpkg and slapt-get are very much alike
[22:36] <rk4n3> isn't sbopkg specifically designed for slackbuilds, which by convention don't include packages from the standard dist ?
[22:36] <alisonken1home> Dominian: disagreement on blender v. motorcycle analogy of sbopkg v. slapt-get
[22:37] <ananke> rk4n3 : exactly.
[22:37] <BP{k}> rk4n3: correct.
[22:37] <Dominian> alisonken1home: I guess I missed most of the convo.. ananke is right.. slapt-get is nothing like sbopkg and vice-versa...
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[22:37] <rk4n3> so it seems to follow that one would use sbopkg for non-dist software, and either the dist discs for dist software, or possibly something else (presumable slapt-get) ... regardless of functionality differences
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[22:38] <alisonken1home> Dominian: I was pointing out to ananke that my use of sbopkg was the same use I made of slapt-get; so by my perspective, both are similar (note: not the same, just similar in class)
[22:38] <ananke> rk4n3 : yep. they complement each other
[22:38] <thrice`> you could use slapt-get to manage your sbopkg-created repo, however
[22:38] <ananke> alisonken1home : you couldn't have used slapt-get the same way as you use sbopkg, and vice versa
[22:38] <Dominian> er ok
[22:39] <rk4n3> hmmm... I think my point is that the difference isn't in how they're used - its the locations you use them with
[22:39] <Dominian> I'm too tired right now to really comprehend anything.. so I'm just going to watch
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[22:40] <rk4n3> alisonken1home:  is that where you're coming from ?
[22:40] <alisonken1home> Dominian: well, I have to go pick up the kid - so it will probably be dropped in about 2 minutes (or less)
[22:40] <Dominian> heh
[22:40] <mrselfpwn> no one mess with busybox much?
[22:40] <Dominian> nope
[22:40] <Dominian> I know its used in some live cds :)
[22:40] <Dominian> does that help?
[22:40] <alisonken1home> rk4n3: yes. I know the difference between them. I also know that a blender v. motorcycle analogy is not the same as an sbopkg v. slapt-get issue
[22:40] <nooper> used it on ddwrt a little
[22:40] <mrselfpwn> heh, not really but thanks
[22:41] <mrselfpwn> yeah
[22:41] <ananke> damn, looks like entire vt.edu went off-line for a couple of mins there
[22:41] Action: rk4n3 is happy - both sides make sense to him now
[22:41] <mrselfpwn> i can log in as the default admind nooper
[22:41] <Dominian> ananke: doh
[22:41] <mrselfpwn> admin*
[22:41] <nooper> cool
[22:41] <Dominian> ananke: there were like 6 major fiber cuts in Kentucky yesterday.. nasty stuff
[22:41] <ananke> Dominian : ouch
[22:41] <Dominian> major ice storm
[22:41] <ananke> i was hoping it was network issues, not power
[22:41] <mrselfpwn> though get errors when trying to run any command that help lists
[22:41] <Dominian> ananke: you mean with vt?
[22:42] <mrselfpwn> either permission denied or invalid command, (even though help lists it as one)
[22:42] <ananke> Dominian : yep. network issues = campus network services would deal with it. power issues in my data centers = i have to go in and supervise the power-up
[22:42] <mrselfpwn> nooper, any idea?
[22:42] <nooper> mrselfpwn: whats giving a permission denied error?
[22:43] <Dominian> ananke: I roll dice and hopefully they come up power issues... cause I wanna see you bitch a little ;)
[22:43] <mrselfpwn> well, I would have to log in to tell you.  mind me getting back to you in a sec?
[22:43] <Dominian> mrselfpwn: what are you logging into?
[22:43] <ananke> hehe
[22:43] <mrselfpwn> busybox
[22:43] <Dominian> oh
[22:43] <nooper> np
[22:43] <Dominian> wait.. busybox?
[22:43] <mrselfpwn> it's a router
[22:43] <Dominian> are we talking about the same thing?
[22:43] <Dominian> eh
[22:44] <mrselfpwn> i was talking with nooper
[22:44] <Dominian> is that a Vendor or something?
[22:44] <SupernalTriad> mrselfpwn, ill create an account on my system...you ssh in and do a remote port forward of their 22 to my 1337
[22:44] <SupernalTriad> and ill hax0rz themz0rz
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[22:44] <mrselfpwn> SupernalTriad, that would not help
[22:45] <mrselfpwn> because
[22:45] <SupernalTriad> * mrselfpwn has quit (no rout to host)
[22:45] <mrselfpwn> if I can't do it locally
[22:45] <mrselfpwn> then it can't be done from your house
[22:45] <SupernalTriad> i would be local with the port forward
[22:45] <SupernalTriad> steenious
[22:45] <Dominian> what?
[22:45] <SupernalTriad> but yeah they probably have an admin ip
[22:46] <mrselfpwn> well
[22:46] <SupernalTriad> i'd hope
[22:46] <mrselfpwn> well
[22:46] <mrselfpwn> the thing is
[22:46] <Dominian> What type of router is it?
[22:46] <mrselfpwn> i'm trying to help the hotel i'm staying in with their internet problems
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[22:46] <Dominian> eh
[22:46] <mrselfpwn> they have an IT guy who doesn't do his job
[22:46] <Dominian> mrselfpwn: are you charging them?
[22:46] <SupernalTriad> what problem...you arent dropping connection
[22:47] <Dominian> mrselfpwn: if you aren't.. you're an idiot
[22:47] <Dominian> guarantee their IT guy charges them
[22:47] <SupernalTriad> you trying to fix their pings for enemy-territory?
[22:47] <mrselfpwn> no Dominian, my kicker is I will be able to up the bandwidth throttle
[22:47] <Dominian> and any outside consultant firm is going to charge, on average, $110/hr, 1 hour minimum
[22:47] <mrselfpwn> yeah he does
[22:47] <Dominian> how is that a kicker?
[22:47] <Dominian> to me that isn't a kicker
[22:47] <SupernalTriad> he likes doing IT for free
[22:47] <Dominian> unless you plan on living there for a month
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[22:48] <Dominian> pfft fsck that
[22:48] <mrselfpwn> because, i'm only gettins 100 kb dl speed
[22:48] <Dominian> they could eat me
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[22:48] <Dominian> mrselfpwn: first off.. what type of internet connection is it?
[22:48] <mrselfpwn> dude i am gonna be here 2 months
[22:48] <SupernalTriad> mrselfpwn, thats not bad for a hotel
[22:48] <thrice`> I wouldn't even except 100 kb/s out of most
[22:48] <SupernalTriad> expect
[22:48] <mrselfpwn> holliday that isn't good
[22:48] <thrice`> expect indeed
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[22:49] <SupernalTriad> or accept
[22:49] <mrselfpwn> I talk to the manager a good bit
[22:49] <mrselfpwn> he is gonna talk to their IT guy and see about raising the bandwidth
[22:49] <SupernalTriad> has he asked you to service his obese wife yet?
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[22:49] <mrselfpwn> i did, he didn't know about that though.
[22:49] <SupernalTriad> rofl
[22:50] <mrselfpwn> lol
[22:50] Action: Khratos ... going to sleep, see u later.
[22:50] <mrselfpwn> gnight
[22:50] <Khratos> Thanks
[22:50] <SupernalTriad> sleep tight
[22:50] <mrselfpwn> though back on subject
[22:50] <SupernalTriad> your subject is stupid
[22:50] <Khratos> Thanks :)
[22:50] <SupernalTriad> someone change the subject or ill kill you all
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[22:51] <nullboy> SupernalTriad: are you SlackNeo?
[22:51] <SupernalTriad> no
[22:51] <SupernalTriad> i mean yes
[22:51] <Dominian> he he I love my wife...
[22:51] <SupernalTriad> im everybody
[22:51] <Dominian> She brought me home beer!
[22:51] <SupernalTriad> even you when you are offline
[22:51] <nullboy> you're annoying for sure
[22:51] <mrselfpwn> yes quite
[22:51] <SupernalTriad> nullboy, go idle more
[22:51] <Dominian> mrselfpwn: what type of internet connection is it?
[22:52] <Dominian> If you're talking a T1.. and you have 100+ rooms.. even at 75% occupancy.. they are going to kill that bandwidth.
[22:52] <mrselfpwn> that is a good question
[22:52] <BP{k}> Dominian: hehe. always good when they do that :D
[22:52] <Dominian> BP{k}: aye!
[22:52] <acidchild> ananke: ah
[22:52] <acidchild> heh
[22:52] <mrselfpwn> i think he did a QOS on it
[22:52] <Dominian> I dobut it
[22:52] <SupernalTriad> mrselfpwn, get scrap pc parts and build them a linux router with traffic shaping/QOS
[22:52] <Dominian> QoS for what? its a freakin' hotel
[22:53] <BP{k}> Dominian: kethry has started to bring home different ales for me to try on a regular bases :D
[22:53] <mrselfpwn> yeah i know
[22:53] <Dominian> BP{k}: haha
[22:53] <mrselfpwn> i don't get above 202
[22:53] <mrselfpwn> er
[22:53] <mrselfpwn> 101
[22:53] <Dominian> mrselfpwn: walk down stairs.. reboot the router
[22:53] <acidchild> lame
[22:53] <mrselfpwn> that was my highest
[22:53] <Dominian> reboot the switch
[22:53] <Dominian> Then give them a bill for 300 dollars
[22:53] <Dominian> :)
[22:53] <mrselfpwn> lol
[22:53] <Dominian> look, you're going to really hate doing this once you get into it.. here's why.. I used to have to consult to a hotel... it sucked
[22:54] <mrselfpwn> well they have an IT guy they pay who still has 2007 AV running on their PCs
[22:54] <Dominian> 100+ rooms.. T1.. no QoS.. was just basic internet.. anything goes.. you get 60-70% capacity.. people start bitching...
[22:54] <nullboy> lol
[22:54] <mrselfpwn> and they are paying his ass
[22:54] <nullboy> Antivirus 2007
[22:54] <nullboy> i love it
[22:54] <Dominian> mrselfpwn: where is this hotel?
[22:54] <nullboy> i dealt with that one this weel
[22:54] <thrice`> plus lots of porn, as it's a hotel
[22:54] <mrselfpwn> Arizona
[22:54] <nullboy> week*
[22:54] <Dominian> damn
[22:54] <Dominian> If it was close enough.. I'd be like "I'm coming right over"
[22:54] <SupernalTriad> porn....ah
[22:54] <mrselfpwn> lol
[22:55] <SupernalTriad> we aer going to need a bigger tube
[22:55] <Dominian> mrselfpwn: what type of router is terminating their internet connection?
[22:55] <mrselfpwn> it's off brand
[22:55] <mrselfpwn> let me check
[22:55] <Dominian> what type of internet connection?
[22:55] <Dominian> These are things you need to know
[22:55] <SupernalTriad> mrselfpwn, stick a big red type-R sticker on it and bill them 300 euro
[22:55] <nooper> lol SupernalTriad
[22:55] <mrselfpwn> I'm American
[22:56] <SupernalTriad> yeah...but someone already said 300$
[22:56] <mrselfpwn> lol
[22:56] <mrselfpwn> 1 sec
[22:56] <SupernalTriad> hehe
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[22:57] <SupernalTriad> who likes Dub
[22:57] <acidchild> Dominian: good news about the 3ed fiber link :-)
[22:57] <acidchild> SupernalTriad: me :]
[22:57] <Dominian> acidchild: oh?
[22:57] <acidchild> Dominian: yeah, 250mbit
[22:57] <Dominian> SupernalTriad: you're Neo-Zionist aren't you
[22:57] <Dominian> acidchild: $*(#&$*!?!~??
[22:57] <Dominian> acidchild: that's my impression of beer being spit out
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[22:58] <acidchild> hehe
[22:58] <SupernalTriad> acidchild, whats your best dub
[22:58] <acidchild> Dominian: lots of download bandwidth for me to munch on :-P
[22:58] <mrselfpwn> aight
[22:58] <Dominian> acidchild: where's mine?
[22:58] <acidchild> as maybe 8mbit of download is used hehe on average
[22:58] <mrselfpwn> it's default is 192.168.168.1
[22:59] <SupernalTriad> Life Is Not Easy Dub - The Upsetters.mp3
[22:59] <SupernalTriad> mrselfpwn, wow so you mean the gateway?
[22:59] <mrselfpwn> and NetPassage 18A HotSpot.
[22:59] <SupernalTriad> zoooooooomg u r good hackz0r
[22:59] <acidchild> SupernalTriad: lwiz is good.
[23:00] <SupernalTriad> never heard of that...thanks
[23:00] <mrselfpwn> try it
[23:00] <acidchild> myspace.com/lwizdubstep
[23:00] <acidchild> or something
[23:00] <mrselfpwn> i'm talkigin to Dominian btw
[23:00] <SupernalTriad> dubstep...ok ill try it out
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[23:00] <SupernalTriad> i like real dub
[23:01] <acidchild> music is just awesome :)
[23:01] <SupernalTriad> http://www.themelodians.net/  blackark.com
[23:01] <mrselfpwn> yes they are an off brand.
[23:01] <mrselfpwn> what do you think Dominian?
[23:02] <Dominian> never even heard of it
[23:02] <SupernalTriad> you'd be better off with a linksys and dd-wrt/tomato
[23:02] <mrselfpwn> i know
[23:02] <mrselfpwn> acidchild how have you been?
[23:02] <acidchild> Dominian: do you know the default community string for ciscos?
[23:02] <Dominian> acidchild: for snmp?
[23:02] <acidchild> yeah
[23:03] <Dominian> acidchild: probably public
[23:03] <Dominian> or privte
[23:03] <Dominian> or cisco
[23:03] <SupernalTriad> hahaha
[23:03] <SupernalTriad> http://xmms.org/
[23:03] <acidchild> its the one from AT&T.
[23:03] <SupernalTriad> SuperDuper Deluxe HTML presentation ZOMG LOL!!!111
[23:03] <Dominian> Public Private Secret
[23:04] <Dominian> acidchild: if AT&T manages it.. they more than like disabled snmp or chagned it
[23:04] <mrselfpwn> acidchild how have you been?
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[23:04] <SupernalTriad> i need a ogg input plugin for xmms
[23:04] <SupernalTriad> oh never mind
[23:04] <acidchild> Dominian: i'm guessing 209.146.233.1 is the gw
[23:04] <acidchild> i have no idea if thats the IP of the cisco though
[23:04] <Dominian> well let me see..
[23:05] <Dominian> well they are smart enough to have acls in place
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[23:05] <Dominian> I would say that's the router
[23:05] <acidchild> its _a_ router if its the one upstairs i have no idea
[23:05] <Dominian> ah
[23:05] <Dominian> easy to test..
[23:05] <Dominian> ping it
[23:05] <Dominian> then go unplug it
[23:06] <acidchild> ...
[23:06] <Dominian> if the ping dies.. you got the right one ;P
[23:06] <acidchild> i should beable to arping it and not the others hops?
[23:06] <nullboy> do you guys think the windows 'power users' group is safe enough to keep spyware out of the actual system directories?
[23:07] <acidchild> ummm...
[23:07] <Dominian> acidchild: depends on how they configured it
[23:07] <acidchild> good question :-P
[23:07] <acidchild> Dominian: i wonder if they have locked the serial interface =P
[23:07] <nullboy> i know power users can't update or defrag the system
[23:07] <Dominian> acidchild: hehe.
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[23:09] <mrselfpwn> well thank you for your help
[23:09] <mrselfpwn> i'll be back later man
[23:09] <mrselfpwn> thank you all again
[23:09] <acidchild> Dominian: there is a new video up btw =P
[23:10] <Dominian> cool
[23:10] <Dominian> acidchild: amazing how quiet OSSEC is now since I made those changes
[23:10] <acidchild> yeah :-]
[23:10] <acidchild> i'm still getting alot from brouter and spy
[23:10] <acidchild> because of postgresql errors.
[23:11] <mrselfpwn> acidchild
[23:11] <acidchild> Dominian: its snmp v2 or 3?
[23:13] <SupernalTriad> acidchild, mplayer mms://win2.fast-serv.com/ros
[23:13] <SupernalTriad> !!!
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[23:13] <SupernalTriad> thats the shit
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[23:14] <SupernalTriad> :(
[23:14] <SupernalTriad> my firned
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[23:18] <Dominian> acidchild: no idea.. depends on the IOS.
[23:18] <Dominian> probably 1 or 2
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[23:23] <acidchild> Dominian: go on gtalk
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[23:34] <SupernalTriad> this is the best radio station i have ever heard
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[23:35] <tank-man> talk radio?
[23:35] <SupernalTriad> no
[23:35] <SupernalTriad> music
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[00:00] --- Thu Jan 29 2009